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Old Tuesday 18th August 2020, 19:43   #1
ambduck5
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Life lists:

Does anyone count birds extracted from mist nets or other traps?
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Old Tuesday 18th August 2020, 20:17   #2
birdboybowley
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Why wouldn't you? They're wild birds
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Old Tuesday 18th August 2020, 20:29   #3
ambduck5
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Reduced into possession?
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Old Tuesday 18th August 2020, 20:31   #4
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Why wouldn't you? They're wild birds
I was always told that you had to be there at the moment of release to count them on your Brit list?

I know that long time, number one, World lister, John Hornbuckle, now sadly deceased, often carried mist nets on his travels.
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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 08:07   #5
Mike C
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I don't know if it's a rule, and if it is who is monitoring that rule but I was told by my mentor when I first started birding that you couldn't tick the bird in the net or in the ringer's hand.
The caveat being - it's your list - you count what you want to count.
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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 10:45   #6
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Why not is it any different from tape luring birds in which you would ave little or no chance of seeing or putting out food to attract birds.
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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 11:09   #7
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Exactly.....such a bizarre way to look at it
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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 11:12   #8
temmie
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No you can't.

You can count wild birds that are free to go / free to hide / free to fly away or come closer. Not birds in captivity.

Mist-netted birds are countable in most countries 24 hours (or one night in between) after they have been released.
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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 11:45   #9
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I wouldn't count any trapped animals. That includes birds in mist-nets.

I also think that making that socially (ethically) acceptable would lead to very undesirable behaviour. Just imagine birders setting up mist-nets or other trapping devies to capture rare birds just to tick them off on their life-list!

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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 12:16   #10
Steve Lister
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The only written guidance I can recollect ever seeing about this was I think in the ABA advice to members who submit lists to them. And I think it was something along the lines of the bird is countable once it has started behaving naturally after release.

I don't think it is right to tick a bird while it is actually in captivity. Otherwise zoos would be a lot more popular.

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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 13:17   #11
SlowLowFlyingTurkey
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I wouldn't count it while in the net or the captor's hand, but the moment it is released I would count it as a free-flying bird again. In other words, I would have to be there to witness the release.

On a similar note, I would have no problem counting a wild bird that had become temporarily trapped, for example flown through a window and having difficulty escaping the building, as long as the bird genuinely entered the building of it's own free will and there was no deliberate attempt to lure it in. So far I haven't yet had to tick anything under these circumstances though.
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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 20:06   #12
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Is there any difference between birds in the hand or just released and strand line corpses, shot birds or road casualties. In fact, take it to the next level and we can all visit the local museum and tick off 'collected' specimens from earlier centuries. I personally believe you have to be pretty desperate to 'tick' anything before, after or subsequent to ringing.
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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 20:26   #13
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I personally believe there are far too many people trying to make the difficult business of twitching more difficult at the moment. Despite being generally pro-European I don't care how long other countries make people wait before a mist-netted bird becomes tickable again.

SOP in Britain is that a trapped bird is tickable on release. Anyone who doesn't want to tick such birds doesn't have to, but stop trying to back-seat drive others' lists: and for that matter stop trying to take one more bit of joy out of what is, after all, a hobby, you miserable lot. Shame on all of you: why can't you say something decent - and righteous - and above all, positive, for once?

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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 20:41   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farnboro John View Post
I personally believe there are far too many people trying to make the difficult business of twitching more difficult at the moment. Despite being generally pro-European I don't care how long other countries make people wait before a mist-netted bird becomes tickable again.

SOP in Britain is that a trapped bird is tickable on release. Anyone who doesn't want to tick such birds doesn't have to, but stop trying to back-seat drive others' lists: and for that matter stop trying to take one more bit of joy out of what is, after all, a hobby, you miserable lot. Shame on all of you: why can't you say something decent - and righteous - and above all, positive, for once?

John
As I said.
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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 21:35   #15
Larry Sweetland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farnboro John View Post
I personally believe there are far too many people trying to make the difficult business of twitching more difficult at the moment. Despite being generally pro-European I don't care how long other countries make people wait before a mist-netted bird becomes tickable again.

SOP in Britain is that a trapped bird is tickable on release. Anyone who doesn't want to tick such birds doesn't have to, but stop trying to back-seat drive others' lists: and for that matter stop trying to take one more bit of joy out of what is, after all, a hobby, you miserable lot. Shame on all of you: why can't you say something decent - and righteous - and above all, positive, for once?

John
Well put John
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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 21:55   #16
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In fact, take it to the next level and we can all visit the local museum and tick off 'collected' specimens from earlier centuries.
Now there's an idea . . .
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Old Wednesday 19th August 2020, 23:18   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambduck5 View Post
Is there any difference between birds in the hand or just released and strand line corpses, shot birds or road casualties. In fact, take it to the next level and we can all visit the local museum and tick off 'collected' specimens from earlier centuries. I personally believe you have to be pretty desperate to 'tick' anything before, after or subsequent to ringing.
What a weird tangent that is.....
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Old Thursday 20th August 2020, 08:56   #18
SlowLowFlyingTurkey
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Is there any difference between birds in the hand or just released and strand line corpses, shot birds or road casualties.
Well there's one very important difference that is so obvious I don't even need to spell it out.
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Old Thursday 20th August 2020, 10:09   #19
Mike C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambduck5 View Post
Is there any difference between birds in the hand or just released and strand line corpses, shot birds or road casualties. In fact, take it to the next level and we can all visit the local museum and tick off 'collected' specimens from earlier centuries. I personally believe you have to be pretty desperate to 'tick' anything before, after or subsequent to ringing.
So a Yellow-billed Cuckoo is ringed (banded) in the nest.
Flies to the UK

You won't tick it ?
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Old Thursday 20th August 2020, 13:02   #20
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I personally believe you have to be pretty desperate to 'tick' anything before, after or subsequent to ringing.
How do you know a bird you see has never been handled before? Rings aren't always visible on a bird in the field, and any bird might have been picked up by a human at some point, for instance if it was saved from a sticky situation, maybe even treated in a rehabilitation facility.
Might as well not tick any bird if that's your position.

FWIW, my life list looks the same with or without birds seen during or after ringing.
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Old Thursday 20th August 2020, 19:22   #21
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Thankfully, not everyone is a twitcher and therefore not desperate for a 'tick'. I guess we all do follow our own rules and that is what makes 'listing' and 'league tables' such a ridiculous pastime. Each to his own I say.
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Old Thursday 20th August 2020, 19:36   #22
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Where does this "desperate for a tick" come from? I mean, if you're a twitcher then yes, you want ticks, but wanting something in not synonymous with desperation. I strongly suspect a straw man has been conjured here but hey, if it gives you someone to feel superior to then knock yourself out
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Old Thursday 20th August 2020, 20:43   #23
Sangahyando
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Thankfully, not everyone is a twitcher and therefore not desperate for a 'tick'. I guess we all do follow our own rules and that is what makes 'listing' and 'league tables' such a ridiculous pastime. Each to his own I say.
So now that we've established that you don't watch birds because any of them could have been held by a human at some point, and thus not be "wild" as per your definition, you're also effectively saying that you don't actually keep a life list. So what is the point of this thread?

PS: I'm not a competitive lister nor a particularly enthusiastic twitcher, and I've never heard of "league tables" in this context before.
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Old Thursday 20th August 2020, 20:49   #24
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Talking

Believe it or not, I still "need" a Grashopper Warbler for my lifelist. In have heard several but I don't count "heard only" and yes, I have actually seen one but that was captured in a mist-net so that one also doesn't count for me. Not desperate, but...
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Old Thursday 20th August 2020, 21:01   #25
YuShan
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Quote:
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PS: I'm not a competitive lister nor a particularly enthusiastic twitcher, and I've never heard of "league tables" in this context before.
I remember when I heard about "competitive birding" for the first time some years ago. I was like...WTF! For me nature and birding is a way to escape all the competitive shit. It seems there is no escape!

That said, I really enjoy keeping a list.
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