• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

HBW and BirdLife Taxonomic Checklist v4 (1 Viewer)

A little further research suggests that the authors of the paper recommending use of the name Chilappan for the Montecincla laughingthrushes may have done so under a misapprehension.

According to the authors ""Chilappan” stems from the local name of this genus (in Malayalam language), denoting their joyful cackling calls." However, it appears that the name is in fact used for a variety of babblers and laughingthrushes of various genera (including Wynaad Laughingthrush, which is a Garrulax).

If this is indeed the case, then I think the case for using Chilappan in the English name is unfounded, even ignoring objections to using a Malayalam word for an English name.
 
A little further research suggests that the authors of the paper recommending use of the name Chilappan for the Montecincla laughingthrushes may have done so under a misapprehension.

According to the authors ""Chilappan” stems from the local name of this genus (in Malayalam language), denoting their joyful cackling calls." However, it appears that the name is in fact used for a variety of babblers and laughingthrushes of various genera (including Wynaad Laughingthrush, which is a Garrulax).

If this is indeed the case, then I think the case for using Chilappan in the English name is unfounded, even ignoring objections to using a Malayalam word for an English name.

Don't tell me all the entertaining squabbling has been in vain?;)

You'll be telling me Santa Claus/Father Christmas is a figment of my imagination next... I'll have to ask Edward Dickinson to get on to it!

Enjoy Christmas and New Year, everyone!3:)
MJB
 
Don't tell me all the entertaining squabbling has been in vain?;)

You'll be telling me Santa Claus/Father Christmas is a figment of my imagination next... I'll have to ask Edward Dickinson to get on to it!

Enjoy Christmas and New Year, everyone!3:)
MJB

Oh, I wouldn't go that far! It's been pretty good value at times!

Merry Christmas!
 
A simple solution to Olive Warbler being renamed because it is not a warbler would be 'Olive-warbler' (actually I would prefer Olive-Warbler).

Steve

I love it. That’s how I’m going to list it on my personal life list, which takes into account the IOC and Clements taxonomies, as well as some alternate names from those and other sources where I think they make more sense than the standard English names.

I personally think Ocotero is a terrible name and would start us down a slippery slope where the powers that be think they have to rename birds using indigenous languages, all, I suppose, in the name of political correctness.

Dave
 
I personally think Ocotero is a terrible name and would start us down a slippery slope where the powers that be think they have to rename birds using indigenous languages, all, I suppose, in the name of political correctness.
Ocotero is far better than one of those ghastly hyphenated contrivances!
 
I'm just curious as to how many of the people commenting on the Olive Warbler/Ocotero situation have actually read the proposal suggesting the name change.

I also rolled my eyes when I saw the proposal, thinking that as inaccurate, uniformative, and misleading as Olive Warbler is (and it's routinely cited as one of the 'worst' North American bird names), we don't need yet another name change. But then I went ahead and read the proposal (see http://checklist.aou.org/assets/proposals/PDF/2020-A.pdf ) and the author makes an exceptionally good case for adopting Ocotero. Definitely worth a read for those who haven't.
 
I'm just curious as to how many of the people commenting on the Olive Warbler/Ocotero situation have actually read the proposal suggesting the name change.

I also rolled my eyes when I saw the proposal, thinking that as inaccurate, uniformative, and misleading as Olive Warbler is (and it's routinely cited as one of the 'worst' North American bird names), we don't need yet another name change. But then I went ahead and read the proposal (see http://checklist.aou.org/assets/proposals/PDF/2020-A.pdf ) and the author makes an exceptionally good case for adopting Ocotero. Definitely worth a read for those who haven't.
I had, and agree with the proposal 8-P
One small error in it though,
Ocotero is derived from ocote, a common Spanish term for various species of Latin American coniferous trees in the genus Pinus,
Ocote is actually a Nahuatl term, not a Spanish one :t:
 
I find it hard to believe that folks here would actually prefer misleading names like Olive Warbler or Kentish Plover instead of accepting names that are not originally English. Especially when half of the names that are already in use never were English. To me this seems very small-minded
 
I find it hard to believe that folks here would actually prefer misleading names like Olive Warbler or Kentish Plover instead of accepting names that are not originally English. Especially when half of the names that are already in use never were English. To me this seems very small-minded

HALF!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is supposed to be a list of common names in English, do what you want with your German list.

Most people are aware of the innacuracy of some names though not always the fact that some may be in the wrong genus but this is information that wasn't available previously as the science was lacking. What would you suggest to replace Kentish Plover, it is still a Plover and Sardinian Warbler is still a Warbler?

It's interesting to see that many who are supporting the new names and criticising those who don't, actually speak English as a second language.
 
Last edited:
What would you suggest to replace Kentish Plover, it is still a Plover and Sardinian Warbler is still a Warbler?
There used to be Kentish Plovers in Kent - a sad reflection on humanity there aren't now. But otherwise, Alexandrine Plover from the sci name should be OK. Nowt wrong with Sardinian Warbler, they're common enough in Sardinia :t:
 
"It's interesting to see that many who are supporting the new names and criticising those who don't, actually speak English as a second language."

And he wonders why there have been suggestions of xenophobia in the thread.

Whatever - welcome to the ignore list.
 
"It's interesting to see that many who are supporting the new names and criticising those who don't, actually speak English as a second language."

And he wonders why there have been suggestions of xenophobia in the thread.

Whatever - welcome to the ignore list.

How on earth is that xenophobic !!!!!

Another low poster who just chips in to be enraged but has nothing sensible to contribute, glad I won't have to respond to your faux outrage.

There are lists in Spanish, German, Dutch, French etc, why the outrage at an English list, why should we adopt Spanish and Malayalam names, they are not English names, you just don't get it some of you. You seem to blinded by a perceived wrong of your own invention and fall back on claims of racism and xenophobia to support a weak argument. What we are actually witnessing here is an anti English sentiment.

Some of you should watch this, I mean really watch and most of all, listen, it's an intelligent, non partizan examination of the UK election and liberalism which is relevant to the accusations made here............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kf1YKeq7lA

I'm withdrawing now, some here are incapable of sustaining reasoned debate without levelling accusations that have the sole aim of stifling opposing views.
 
Last edited:
Dear moderators.
I now have two posts deleted in this topic without any explanation.
I demand one or I’ll keep copy/pasting my posts, thanks!
I find it highly disturbing that posts are deleted without warning / notification (I actually never experienced something like that in any forum).
 
Dear moderators.
I now have two posts deleted in this topic without any explanation.
I demand one or I’ll keep copy/pasting my posts, thanks!
I find it highly disturbing that posts are deleted without warning / notification (I actually never experienced something like that in any forum).

I've had posts removed without warning or explanation in the past, why do you expect special treatment?

I hope your posts weren't racist?
 
Last edited:
I've had posts removed without warning or explanation in the past, why do you expect special treatment?

I hope your posts weren't racist?

In contrast to yours, temmies posts have always been insightful and moderate. I see absolutely no reason why any of his posts would be deleted, it seems obscene.

The thing that you don't seem to get, is that English names and the English language are not only used by the English! English has become a global language, perhaps the most important one in the world. It doesn't seem that much to ask, that here and there it might incorporate some local colour. I wonder, if you had lived a few centuries earlier, if you'd have rambled as much about Quetzal, Toucan or Tanager...
These names aren't changed, as you suggest, because someone out there feels like it. There's a reason: The birds in question aren't in fact laughing-thrushes, so in order to reflect new taxonomic insights and further our understanding, new names are suggested that help the layman notice that there's a difference between the species.
 
It's a bit odd that some people are getting worked up over the name change of a bird THAT DOESN'T EVEN LIVE ON YOUR CONTINENT. I'd say whether or not the Ocotero becomes the new name lies with English speakers on this side of the pond.

I was resistant to the name change but don't really mind it too much now. I kind of like unique names for birds in oddball families, like Zeledonia or Spindalis.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 4 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top