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Bird on love bird live webcam (Japan)

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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 01:14   #1
Earnest lad
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Bird on love bird live webcam (Japan)

I have been watching the above web cam on youtube.
I have grabbed 2 screen grabs of the same bird.
It appeared to me to be like a Eurasian Robin but with a gray back and a whitish underside
Please can anyone advise what the bird species is.
Sorry for the poor quality of the composite image
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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 01:46   #2
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additional pic here from cam 2
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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 02:15   #3
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Asian Brown Flycatcher, I think.

Do you have a link for the webcam. I searched but only a video of caged Lovebirds came up.
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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 04:18   #4
johnallcock
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It looks more like a female Narcissus Flycatcher to me eg all-black bill, warm tones to uppertail, wing pattern, structure
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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 04:56   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnallcock View Post
It looks more like a female Narcissus Flycatcher to me eg all-black bill, warm tones to uppertail, wing pattern, structure
Yes, you're probably right. When I looked I put the lack of yellow under the bill down to it being a sceenshot from a webcam, And in the first (double) shot the eyering looked bigger and whiter than it shows in the other. And then female Narcissus is a lot shyer than the male (when people are around, but as this is a webcam, I suppose there are no people).

From personal experience, in my local area, Narcissus seems to be a bit more common than it used to be - there are three males calling all spring and summer this year in my very small local spot in Nara City, whereas five years ago it was a bird that passed through in spring, but didn't breed there. These days, if you look for them in my area, they are pretty easy to find, not only in the hilltop forest.
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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 09:20   #6
Chris.S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNara View Post
Asian Brown Flycatcher, I think.

Do you have a link for the webcam. I searched but only a video of caged Lovebirds came up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm_RPOVlbGQ

Found this after a quick search
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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 09:31   #7
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Originally Posted by Chris.S View Post

Found this after a quick search
Thanks. That appears to be in Karuizawa (Nagano Prefecture) where there should be quite a variety of birds throughout the year.

The description below the video feed saying "It is a water and feeding area for children in Mikasa Forest, installed on the balcony of the mountain hut," is an accurate translation of the Japanese. But it's obviously for birds, not (human) children. I wonder if there is a predictive text error in the Japanese? 子供達 (kodomo-tachi) means children. 小鳥達 (kotori-tachi) means small birds (not juveniles, but small as in sparrow-sized). Japanese keyboard input uses the roman alphabet and then converts it to Chinese characters, so this is quite possible if the writer simply didn't notice the error.
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Last edited by MacNara : Monday 15th July 2019 at 09:43.
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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 13:04   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNara View Post
Asian Brown Flycatcher, I think.

Do you have a link for the webcam. I searched but only a video of caged Lovebirds came up.
Please see the links below (two camera views)

LOVE BIRDS 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-v1...i0jxZa&index=1

LOVE BIRDS 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm_RPOVlbGQ
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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 13:05   #9
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Yes, you're probably right. When I looked I put the lack of yellow under the bill down to it being a sceenshot from a webcam, And in the first (double) shot the eyering looked bigger and whiter than it shows in the other. And then female Narcissus is a lot shyer than the male (when people are around, but as this is a webcam, I suppose there are no people).]

Well if it is helpful I can say the bird only stays around for about 20 seconds
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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 13:12   #10
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Thank you all for the input . I shall put it down as a Narcissus

Other birds I have seen on this cam are Varied Tit, Japanese tit, willow tit, Eurasian Nuthatch, Jay, Oriental Greenfinch, Japanese Grosbeak, Yellow rumped Flycatcher, Hawfinch

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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 13:57   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earnest lad View Post
Thank you all for the input . I shall put it down as a Narcissus.
I've looked again, and although I should bow to John Allcock's superior eye, I'm still not fully convinced this isn't Asian Brown.

Asian Brown is almost always shown as grey in books, but can also look very brown in the right light (there's a reason for the name). And wing markings vary with the time of year. I think even in the better picture that we can't see the lower mandible, so the yellow would not be visible. In both photos the bird looks basically brown and grey, whereas (the light seems not too bad) the female Narcissus should look greener. Also in the better picture, there is a white loral line from the eye ring to the bill, which is a feature of Asian Brown, but not of Narcissus. The better photo shows a greenish tint to the chest, but I think this is an artefact. In addition, the throat itself seems white, and whiter than the chest, which again is AB rather than Narcissus. And the poorer composite picture looks better for AB to me also. Anyway I attach one photo of each to show how they can look.

As a matter of interest are you sure that the camera 2 picture is one of the two birds in the composite photo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earnest lad View Post
Other birds I have seen on this cam are Varied Tit, Japanese tit, willow tit, Eurasian Nuthatch, Jay, Oriental Greenfinch, Japanese Grosbeak, Yellow rumped Flycatcher, Hawfinch
I think it's extremely unlikely that you have seen Yellow-rumped Flycatcher at this location. It's a rare passage migrant to offshore islands in the west. It would surely have been male Narcissus.
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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 15:52   #12
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Yes, I am sure all 3 photo's are of the same bird. The two cams are simultaneous and on youtube you can go back in time and replay (upto 4 hours I think) I went back and grabbed the screen shot.

Thank you for the advice on the "yellow-rumped flycatcher." . I am not dogmatic as I could've been mistaken. If I see the bird I saw again I will try to get a screenshot.

Edit: have just looked at Male Narcissus on google and I see now that so called "yellow rumped flycatcher " would definitely have been a male Narcissus Flycatcher. I remember not only the yellow rump (whch made me think of yellow rump) but I also remember the white wing bars.

I suppose that could raise the question - if the male Narcissus is turning up here, the female Narcissus might do too.

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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 22:34   #13
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Originally Posted by Earnest lad View Post
I suppose that could raise the question - if the male Narcissus is turning up here, the female Narcissus might do too.
Yes, I'm sure that both male and female Narcissus would show up. But Asian Brown would also be likely to be in the same kind of spot. They both breed just fifty metres from each other in a small wood near my house.

John Alllcock is both more knowledgeable than me, and has a better 'eye', so I would go wth his judgement. I was just trying to give reasons why I still can't quite get it. I'm often wrong; but sometimes I'm right.
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Old Monday 15th July 2019, 23:52   #14
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Dear Mr MacNamara
Thank you for your most instructive contribution to this thread. I am certainly learning all the time.
It must be nice living in the place you live in Japan.
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Old Tuesday 16th July 2019, 02:13   #15
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Originally Posted by MacNara View Post
I've looked again, and although I should bow to John Allcock's superior eye, I'm still not fully convinced this isn't Asian Brown.

Asian Brown is almost always shown as grey in books, but can also look very brown in the right light (there's a reason for the name). And wing markings vary with the time of year. I think even in the better picture that we can't see the lower mandible, so the yellow would not be visible. In both photos the bird looks basically brown and grey, whereas (the light seems not too bad) the female Narcissus should look greener. Also in the better picture, there is a white loral line from the eye ring to the bill, which is a feature of Asian Brown, but not of Narcissus. The better photo shows a greenish tint to the chest, but I think this is an artefact. In addition, the throat itself seems white, and whiter than the chest, which again is AB rather than Narcissus. And the poorer composite picture looks better for AB to me also. Anyway I attach one photo of each to show how they can look.
I've looked again in response to MacNara's comment, but I still can't see this as Asian Brown. It's the structure that really sells it for me, especially as the quality of the images makes it difficult to say much about plumage (apart from the fact that it's quite uniform grey/brown).

Asian Brown, like other Muscicapa, is very short-legged and these are set quite far back on the body. This gives it a very upright appearance. It rarely comes to the ground, and when it does it usually still looks a bit upright, with the tail low against the ground and the head held high.

Ficedula flycatchers like Narcissus have slightly longer legs, which are set further forwards on the body. Although they sometimes perch fairly upright, they often hold the body more horizontal, often with the tail cocked above horizontal. This gives them a more robin-like appearance (in fact, I think genetic data shows they are more closely related to robins than to Asian Brown). Narcissus doesn't seem to come to the ground much either, but Red-breasted/Taiga are often on the ground and show this structure well.

I think that the bird in question shows the robin-like posture more similar to a Ficedula. In addition, the wings look a bit too short for Asian Brown and the bill seems too deep and cylindrical (not as broad and flat as ABF), but these features are hard to confirm on the photos.

Maybe we will need to agree to differ, MacNara?

Asian Brown Flycatchers on the ground:
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search..._ID=&Location=
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search..._ID=&Location=
(Dark-sided rather than Asian Brown here, but they show a similar structure: https://johnjemi.blogspot.com/2012/1...-sibirica.html)

Narcissus on ground:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrq_pGHLmks
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search..._ID=&Location=
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search..._ID=&Location=
(Taiga flycatcher for comparison: http://orientalbirdimages.org/search..._ID=&Location=
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search..._ID=&Location=)
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Old Tuesday 16th July 2019, 02:38   #16
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Maybe we will need to agree to differ, MacNara?
No; if you are still sure, John, after I've done my best to persuade you, then that's good enough for me. Narcissus it is.
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Old Tuesday 16th July 2019, 14:56   #17
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No; if you are still sure, John, after I've done my best to persuade you, then that's good enough for me. Narcissus it is.
I find it can often be useful to have someone question your ID, to really focus your mind on why you made that ID and whether you are still confident.

(Incidentally, with reference to the other current Japanese flycatcher thread, this is a bird that I looked back at several times to question if it was Blue and White - but I still think it's Narcissus).
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Old Thursday 18th July 2019, 04:06   #18
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Sorry if I appeared rude not to reply. My computer screen appears to be on its last legs, and went black for a whole day; though it's been OK this morning. Recently it's been going off for hours, and then coming back, and sometimes just flashing. It's eight years old and has given great service. I guess I'll retire it with honour and get a new one in the next week or two.

(I do have acceess to another machine, but I don't rememberer my BF password which is on my main machine (and its backup)).

That webcam is quite neat. Another reason for being sure it's not Yellow-rumped Flycather is that if it were, the view would be obscured by hundreds of twitchers.

Best wishes to all.
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Old Friday 19th July 2019, 04:48   #19
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After all these years i still cant help writing down all my passwords etc in addition to keeping them digitally

Laurie -
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Old Sunday 11th August 2019, 17:48   #20
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Narcissus
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