Unknown raptors, SE France, Sep 2018 (1 Viewer)

These are what remain after I cross off identified short-toed eagles, honey buzzards and sparrowhawks.

1. Rubbish pic but could it be a Booted Eagle
2. Prob a honey buzzard but not sure
3. OK I know this one, but had to share - lifer and pretty rare around here!

2nd is juv Honey Buzzard and the 1st might be the same, but not a Booted Eagle.

Wonderful to see a Black Stork! Was it on its own? Last September we saw them in flanks over Marettimo, Sicily, with juveniles in amongst.

Thanks Valéry! Yes, Kinthissa - just one - although some others saw 6 coming through a day or two earlier.

You can always check the great website migraction for details of recent sightings of migrants. For example, at Organbidexka, Western Pyrenees, 13 Black Storks were seen 2 days ago and the season total is 491.

But very few pass here From Collins I think ours probably come from an isolated colony somewhere north of here between Turin and Grenoble - (very small map) All the others go west of Alps or east: Italy-Sicily, Turkey etc

As I can see on that link

https://www.migraction.net/index.ph...action=list&frmSite=0&year=2018&frmSpecies=41

No Black Stork seen on migration spots in South Eastern France this year, so indeed, in your area, it is rarer.

George Edwards said:

But very few pass here From Collins I think ours probably come from an isolated colony somewhere north of here between Turin and Grenoble - (very small map) All the others go west of Alps or east: Italy-Sicily, Turkey etc

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Hi again George (albeit nom de plume). Not that many Black Storks have been noted at Strait Observatory (Messina - Sicily), 23 so far this year. I think not many last year either. until now 23 Ospreys counted, do you have them coming through? How about Egyptian vultures? I saw a handful over Marettimo last year, this year just 2 noted at the Straits.

And only 5 STEs! over Sicily seems not to be their autumn route, I believe they do the circular circuit.

Kinthissa said:

Hi again George (albeit nom de plume). Not that many Black Storks have been noted at Strait Observatory (Messina - Sicily), 23 so far this year. I think not many last year either. until now 23 Ospreys counted, do you have them coming through? How about Egyptian vultures? I saw a handful over Marettimo last year, this year just 2 noted at the Straits.

And only 5 STEs! over Sicily seems not to be their autumn route, I believe they do the circular circuit.

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Not sure of the exact numbers but should be a handful of ospreys I think - but also quite likely that they could pass by unnoticed as our local migration outpost (Fort de la Revere) is not manned (/womanned) every day, plus they tend to slip by near the coast. Edit: according to migraction 1 or 2 a day

Never heard of Egyptian Vultures here and there don't seem to be any recorded on migraction. There are none to the north of us so it would be very odd if they came this way.

I guess with the STE's the northern Italian ones must be mostly coming this way in the autumn as we get pretty big numbers here. Do you know the route of the southern Italian ones? Over the Adriatic to Yugoslavia then south and east maybe? Or do you think north via france?

> Do you know the route of the southern Italian ones? Over the Adriatic to Yugoslavia then south and east maybe? Or do you think north via france?

Thank you for answering my query re: Ospreys and Egyptian vultures. As to your question above, I've had a look at the literature and it certainly is surprising, in that in autumn, the STEs from the south of Italy also go north, against the flow of other migrants, turning west to France and heading for Gibraltar. You may have known this already.

There is also an unexplained and considerable number of young birds overwintering in Sicily. One paper mentions them attempting to carry on (groups of some tens seen on the island of Marettimo, which is 130km from Cap Bon, Tunisia), but then settling for the winter on Sicily. So these are immatures, and in the spring/summer period, they go back and forth between Sicily and the Italian peninsula.

In one study of 7 juveniles fitted with GPS before they fledged, 5 went the circuitous route via France. Two somehow did not, overwintered in Sicily, then came back in spring to mainland Italy. One sadly got poached near Messina, the other the following autumn learnt the north to west route, reached Spain, and there got shot.

It seems STEs are even more averse to long sea crossings than HBs, flapping flight is too costly for them. Thus their choice of a circuitous route which often nearly doubles the kilometrage between summer and wintering grounds.

The theory is that STEs are 'colonizing' Italy from the west, it is an evolving situation. This may explain why they come down the peninsula, some all the way to southern Italy, and return the way they came. Hope I've got that more or less right! You'll find lots of papers, by Panuccio, Agostini, Premuda, Mellone.

Just looked again at the 3 photos you began this thread with. In no.2 I think I'm seeing a dark mask around the eye, like white juveniles are supposed to have (showing nicely in Hannu's photo on your 'Osprey?' thread). What do you think?

I guess there can't be that many white juveniles about, they are supposed to be less than 10% of the juvenile population. But one in Finland, one here, and may be one passed your way?

Kinthissa said:

> I've had a look at the literature and it certainly is surprising, in that in autumn, the STEs from the south of Italy also go north, against the flow of other migrants, turning west to France and heading for Gibraltar. You may have known this already.

There is also an unexplained and considerable number of young birds overwintering in Sicily. One paper mentions them attempting to carry on (groups of some tens seen on the island of Marettimo, which is 130km from Cap Bon, Tunisia), but then settling for the winter on Sicily. So these are immatures, and in the spring/summer period, they go back and forth between Sicily and the Italian peninsula.

In one study of 7 juveniles fitted with GPS before they fledged, 5 went the circuitous route via France. Two somehow did not, overwintered in Sicily, then came back in spring to mainland Italy. One sadly got poached near Messina, the other the following autumn learnt the north to west route, reached Spain, and there got shot.

It seems STEs are even more averse to long sea crossings than HBs, flapping flight is too costly for them. Thus their choice of a circuitous route which often nearly doubles the kilometrage between summer and wintering grounds.

The theory is that STEs are 'colonizing' Italy from the west, it is an evolving situation. This may explain why they come down the peninsula, some all the way to southern Italy, and return the way they came. Hope I've got that more or less right! You'll find lots of papers, by Panuccio, Agostini, Premuda, Mellone.

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Thanks so much for that research - that explains why we get so many coming through here. I did know that there were some unusual migrations so thought it a possibility but wasn't sure.

The one that often gets mentioned here as a "reverse migration" is Booted Eagle. Some apparently (but very small numbers) go east from the Camargue etc (maybe even Spain?), past here, then down through Italy presumably. First noticed by spotters at Fort de la Revere I believe.

Kinthissa said:

Just looked again at the 3 photos you began this thread with. In no.2 I think I'm seeing a dark mask around the eye, like white juveniles are supposed to have (showing nicely in Hannu's photo on your 'Osprey?' thread). What do you think?

I guess there can't be that many white juveniles about, they are supposed to be less than 10% of the juvenile population. But one in Finland, one here, and may be one passed your way?

Click to expand...

As Collins says "very complex plumage variation especially in juveniles" ! This one seems to match with the brown chest + eye mask juvenile illustration in Collins, which concurs with Valéry's ID. Later, I will do a thread on HB - there are so many plumages, I want to make sure I getting them right.

George Edwards said:

The one that often gets mentioned here as a "reverse migration" is Booted Eagle. Some apparently (but very small numbers) go east from the Camargue etc (maybe even Spain?), past here, then down through Italy presumably. First noticed by spotters at Fort de la Revere I believe.

Click to expand...

That's interesting! Booted eagles appear to be over-wintering on Marettimo. One can just about count on seeing a few regularly, November through to spring. I wonder where they've come from.

It will be a pleasure to see your Honey Buzzard thread.

Another rarity I was lucky to see yesterday during a one hour session - a Red Kite, I believe, travelling with HB. Only about 6 are recorded here each season.

Great to have spotted that in an hour's session. I've only seen one Red Kite in northern Italy, but CERM Centro Rapaci Minacciati has been releasing Red Kites from its Tuscan premises in Alta Valle dell'Albegna, setting out to re-introduce them to the area.

Their main focus is the Egyptian Vulture, re-production and release, quite impressive work. News updates at www.facebook.com/associazione.CERM

HBs must be thinning out, are juveniles coming through now? Any idea where those passing your area are coming from?