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six eaglets released on the Isle of Wight

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Old Wednesday 28th August 2019, 21:01   #26
dantheman
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Its obvious. Funds are finite, so any funds expended on incorrect priorities are funds denied to correct priorities. Not difficult really.
Not quite that obvious

The Hen Harrier situation is more complicated than just putting some money into it. Funds in themselves won't solve it. The benefits to raptors in general (all species) from engaging the public in iconic species should be obvious to see ...

If it were the case that the parties involved are disassociating themselves from Harriers and finding a fun project to play with then I'd be inclined to agree - but is that the case in reality???

That may be the crux of the matter ...
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Old Thursday 29th August 2019, 03:08   #27
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I agree with the point that Dan is making, that there is no reason to believe that funds spent on this would be spent on harrier conservation. Especially if this were a 'vanity project' - which suggests that some funds might instead be spent on some luxury item (car, boat, etc).

I also don't see why this is a decision between these two species. Why should we spend money to conserve harriers in England, but not to conserve eagles? Wouldn't the money be best spent on the project that had the greater chance of success? Given the political complications of resolving the harrier issue and persecution of raptors, and the required change in human behaviour for that to succeed, it is not just a case of throwing money at the problem.


One of the differences between the UK and other countries in terms of conservation is the lack of understanding that wildlife and people can live in proximity. There is an attitude that large animals are to be feared (leading to the argument of WTE hunting sheep) and that it lives in far-away places. This also means that there is an assumption that any area without people must be good for wildlife - hence the difficulty of convincing people that driven grouse shooting or large-scale agricultural monoculture is not the natural landscape of the country.

One of the potential benefits that I see from the WTE project is that it could start to change attitudes about this. If holidaymakers were to see eagles hunting over the Solent or soaring over the centre of Portsmouth, they may understand how biologically impoverished England (especially the south) has been for centuries and this may help to improve attitudes and funding for conservation projects. It may also give them more of a sense of ownership and responsibility for these birds. Knowing that 'their' WTE rely on a healthy marine system may encourage people to think more about the marine environment and the impacts of pollution/overfishing. Seeing 'their' WTE threatened by persecution elsewhere may make locals more active in protecting raptors... which in turn could mean they might indirectly help to protect harriers.
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Old Thursday 29th August 2019, 06:58   #28
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I will start by saying that i do not believe birds should have to justify their existence or any funds expended on their reintroduction. High profile large birds, particularly birds of prey, are eye-catching pulse-racers and a win-win for the general public. The IOW will cash in on ‘staycations’ much like Mull has. This has resulted in a tourist industry that has been generated by these birds and the knock-on effect to the island economy has been noted and acknowledged...

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Old Monday 2nd September 2019, 16:57   #29
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One at least wandering widely already I notice.

Incidentally, I wonder to what extent people will holiday on the IOW rather than Mull due to the accessibility of WTE? Probably very little (Mull has other attractions of the same nature as the eagles, and different ones, not least the absence of South Coast holiday crowds) but it would be a shame if Mull's nature-related tourist income were to suffer in order to draw even larger crowds to an island and nearby areas already stuffed out with the British public every summer.

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Old Monday 2nd September 2019, 18:41   #30
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One at least wandering widely already I notice.

Incidentally, I wonder to what extent people will holiday on the IOW rather than Mull due to the accessibility of WTE? Probably very little (Mull has other attractions of the same nature as the eagles, and different ones, not least the absence of South Coast holiday crowds) but it would be a shame if Mull's nature-related tourist income were to suffer in order to draw even larger crowds to an island and nearby areas already stuffed out with the British public every summer.

John
WTEs notwithstanding, John - IMO there's no contest between IoW and Mull!!
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Old Monday 2nd September 2019, 18:42   #31
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WTEs notwithstanding, John - IMO there's no contest between IoW and Mull!!
I'm with you on that!

John
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Old Tuesday 3rd September 2019, 05:55   #32
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Do you want the smell of Garlic or the smell of Whisky

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Old Sunday 8th September 2019, 17:42   #33
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Hope they have better luck than the juvenile we had up here near Louth Lincolnshire. It was a suspected poisoning by a local farmer, not proved. Beautiful bird, looks enormous when close but blends in well with trees when perched. We used to call it cilla, from it's Latin name Haliaeetus albicilla, birders came from all over the UK to see it.
suspected poisoning by a local farmer, not proved” 🤦🏻🤦🏻👍🏻
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Old Monday 9th September 2019, 03:43   #34
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They are not self poisoning afaik and as they are part-scavenger they will readily feed on dead carcasses that can be laced or baited so almost certainly deliberatly targeted and either farming or shooting interests would be the suspects the smart money would be on the former (not a typo).....

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Old Tuesday 10th September 2019, 11:04   #35
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Kindly do not assume that farmers are to blame. When I was farming all the farmers that I knew would not have done anything such as you are suggesting. I know that there might be a rotten apple in the barrel but it is very rare. Less finger pointing please.
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Old Tuesday 10th September 2019, 11:51   #36
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Your time might be better spent dealing with poisoning and illegal killing in Spain - of course it is ‘rogue’ farmers and they are not the norm but when things are poisoned it usually is because it is their land and they have access to the poisons which are usually illegal in themselves.

Around here the Common Agricultural Policy has done the job for them - there is little or nothing to poison as it is a pretty birdless landscape as they have hung off the EU’s ample teat for 40+ years...

Value your birds whilst you have them because EU subsidies have a price that we all pay in a devalued landscape

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Old Tuesday 10th September 2019, 15:55   #37
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On BBC 1 tonight, an article about the project with Mike Dilger........the One show 7pm.
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