Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Zeiss - Always on the lookout for something special – Shop now

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Dispersal of Common Swift - UK

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Monday 29th July 2019, 15:21   #1
andyadcock
Registered User
 
andyadcock's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nottingham UK and St Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 15,010
Dispersal of Common Swift - UK

Over the years, I've noted that in Nottingham, most Common Swifts have gone by the second week in August yet, when I'm in St Petersburg, Russia, they are evident in to late August at least.

St Petersburg is a lot further North than Nottingham so why do birds linger there longer? Is it just that the Nottingham birds move to congregate on the coast before migration which the Russian birds don't need to do?
__________________
Andy A
andyadcock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 29th July 2019, 19:13   #2
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 11,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
Over the years, I've noted that in Nottingham, most Common Swifts have gone by the second week in August yet, when I'm in St Petersburg, Russia, they are evident in to late August at least.

St Petersburg is a lot further North than Nottingham so why do birds linger there longer? Is it just that the Nottingham birds move to congregate on the coast before migration which the Russian birds don't need to do?
Might the air temperature be higher Aug.end of in St.Petersburg at that time than in the UK, which may have cooled somewhat by that date. (ie more flying invertebrates) in the higher temps?

Cheers
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 29th July 2019, 20:44   #3
halftwo
Wird Batcher
 
halftwo's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Silkstone Common
Posts: 8,629
Blog Entries: 1
When do they arrive in St. Petersburgh?
__________________
Known to follow bird waves.
halftwo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 29th July 2019, 21:34   #4
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
 
Nutcracker's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 18,681
They clear out as soon as the young fledge. So presumably the breeding season in St P starts and finishes ~2 weeks later - I'd guess the start of spring is equally later in St P.
Nutcracker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 31st July 2019, 07:30   #5
andyadcock
Registered User
 
andyadcock's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nottingham UK and St Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 15,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by halftwo View Post
When do they arrive in St. Petersburgh?
That's a good question, I'm often not there when they arrive so can't answer?
__________________
Andy A
andyadcock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 31st July 2019, 07:32   #6
andyadcock
Registered User
 
andyadcock's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nottingham UK and St Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 15,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Might the air temperature be higher Aug.end of in St.Petersburg at that time than in the UK, which may have cooled somewhat by that date. (ie more flying invertebrates) in the higher temps?

Cheers
I doubt it Ken, on the same latitude as Shetland!
__________________
Andy A
andyadcock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 31st July 2019, 08:21   #7
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 11,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
I doubt it Ken, on the same latitude as Shetland!
We know that the continental land mass enjoys more extreme temps than “Island’ UK andy, thus it would be interesting to know if Summer by “mean” temperature arrives earlier and or stays later than it does in Blighty.

I have to assume rightly or wrongly, that their is a “mean” arrival/departure difference for Shetland Swifts and say London Swifts, particularly as the London Swifts are concentrated en masse by the various reservoir groups?

Remembering that perhaps three or four days at either end might make a difference, that was my thought...and fwiw I assume other European countries would have a “mean” arrival and departure date for this species, any differences might be of interest regarding their North/South range within?

Cheers
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 31st July 2019, 17:25   #8
Britseye
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Isles of Scilly
Posts: 900
12:40 31/07 Common Swift East Yorkshire Spurn YWT 11:00
2,842 flew south past Numpties
Britseye is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 31st July 2019, 18:09   #9
andyadcock
Registered User
 
andyadcock's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nottingham UK and St Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 15,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britseye View Post
12:40 31/07 Common Swift East Yorkshire Spurn YWT 11:00
2,842 flew south past Numpties
Is that an unusually large number for the time?
__________________
Andy A
andyadcock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 31st July 2019, 18:22   #10
stevo
Registered User
 
stevo's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hogwarts.
Posts: 2,908
Or the further south that they nest,the longer they can stay.Due to a shorter migration?
stevo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 31st July 2019, 18:37   #11
Xenospiza
Undescribed
 
Xenospiza's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In a drawer
Posts: 10,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
Is that an unusually large number for the time?
Would seem so, hourly averages are highest in early July: https://trektellen.nl/species/graph/...&jaar2=&jaar3=
Xenospiza is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 31st July 2019, 18:48   #12
Xenospiza
Undescribed
 
Xenospiza's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In a drawer
Posts: 10,737
Most birds cleared off this weekend in the Ruhr Area, Germany. Just a few individuals left where there used to be flocks.
The start of the breeding season sounds like a good explanation to me.
For example (also based on trektellen.nl), the peak of migration at Breskens (NL) is the first week of May, whereas in Latvia it appears to be the third/fourth week of May.
Xenospiza is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 31st July 2019, 19:14   #13
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 882
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenospiza View Post
Most birds cleared off this weekend in the Ruhr Area, Germany. Just a few individuals left where there used to be flocks.
The 4-nest micro-colony in front of my window (near Hamburg) obviously has finished breeding, but maybe 40% of the neighbourhood birds are still around as they are having screaming parties pointing out the nests.

(I always wonder of the young take part in these parties, but from I've recently read, it seems they don't.)

I've tried to make sense of the ornitho.de statistics, but they might be too coarse to show the migration South.

Here's the overview for all of Germany for 2018:

Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2019-07-31 - www ornitho de.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	25.4 KB
ID:	700920

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 31st July 2019, 19:31   #14
Xenospiza
Undescribed
 
Xenospiza's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In a drawer
Posts: 10,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
Hi,

The 4-nest micro-colony in front of my window (near Hamburg) obviously has finished breeding, but maybe 40% of the neighbourhood birds are still around as they are having screaming parties pointing out the nests.

I've tried to make sense of the ornitho.de statistics, but they might be too coarse to show the migration South.
If the other contributors are anything like me, they are much more likely to report a Swift in August than in June/July.

Hamburg/Ruhr Area is not Nottingham/St Peterburg, but it fits to the pattern!
Xenospiza is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 31st July 2019, 20:46   #15
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 882
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenospiza View Post
If the other contributors are anything like me, they are much more likely to report a Swift in August than in June/July.
You're right, and I think I'm not all that different :-)

The overview graph I posted is based on the maximum group size of swifts per square of the "TK25" topographical map, per 10 day period.

That should be pretty resilient against irregular reporting, except perhaps in very sparsely populated parts of the country.

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 31st July 2019, 23:49   #16
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 11,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenospiza View Post
Most birds cleared off this weekend in the Ruhr Area, Germany. Just a few individuals left where there used to be flocks.
The start of the breeding season sounds like a good explanation to me.
For example (also based on trektellen.nl), the peak of migration at Breskens (NL) is the first week of May, whereas in Latvia it appears to be the third/fourth week of May.
Does that mean that the further East that one travels at this time, the “mean” temps are lower, hence the earlier arrival times to the West?

Cheers
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 1st August 2019, 06:15   #17
andyadcock
Registered User
 
andyadcock's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nottingham UK and St Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 15,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Does that mean that the further East that one travels at this time, the “mean” temps are lower, hence the earlier arrival times to the West?

Cheers
Well I can tell you that generally, St Petersburg's spring is almost a month behind Nottingham's.

I guess they breed later due to food availability so leave later?
__________________
Andy A
andyadcock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 1st August 2019, 08:35   #18
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 11,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
Well I can tell you that generally, St Petersburg's spring is almost a month behind Nottingham's.

I guess they breed later due to food availability so leave later?
Kinda makes sense....
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 1st August 2019, 14:25   #19
Britseye
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Isles of Scilly
Posts: 900
Thirty-one thousand three hundred and fifty Swifts passed south Gibraltar Point, Lincs yesterday
Britseye is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 1st August 2019, 15:22   #20
KenM
Registered User
 
KenM's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 11,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britseye View Post
Thirty-one thousand three hundred and fifty Swifts passed south Gibraltar Point, Lincs yesterday
Probably goes some way explaining just the two seen today over the house.

......and now c15.

Last edited by KenM : Thursday 1st August 2019 at 15:41.
KenM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 1st August 2019, 17:48   #21
Xenospiza
Undescribed
 
Xenospiza's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In a drawer
Posts: 10,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
The overview graph I posted is based on the maximum group size of swifts per square of the "TK25" topographical map, per 10 day period.

That should be pretty resilient against irregular reporting, except perhaps in very sparsely populated parts of the country.
Hadn't noticed that (of course).
My immediate next question is "How did you do that?" but don't burden this thread with that information!
While you're at it, if you'd plot the maximum group sizes against the TK25 coordinates, you might be able see if the average moves north or south and east or west through Germany.
Xenospiza is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 1st August 2019, 22:13   #22
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 882
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenospiza View Post
Hadn't noticed that (of course).
My immediate next question is "How did you do that?" but don't burden this thread with that information!
While you're at it, if you'd plot the maximum group sizes against the TK25 coordinates, you might be able see if the average moves north or south and east or west through Germany.
It's a standard report in ornitho.de, just hidden a bit in their weird menu structure. (Look for "raster" something.)

As it's a standard report, I don't think there's a way for someone outside the ornitho.de team to create the report you're suggesting - though it certainly would be an interesting one!

(ornitho.de doesn't really do "citizen science" in my opinion, as they're not really making the data available to mere citizens.)

My original reason to look at ornitho.de was that a couple of years back, they linked to another site that showed animated maps for the migration of European bird species all over Europe, which would have been perfect for this topic. Unfortunately, I didn't find that link again.

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 6th August 2019, 14:08   #23
andyadcock
Registered User
 
andyadcock's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nottingham UK and St Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 15,010
Noticably all gone from my part of Nottingham three days ago.
__________________
Andy A
andyadcock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 6th August 2019, 18:00   #24
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 882
Hi Andy,

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
Noticably all gone from my part of Nottingham three days ago.
Just two outside at the moment, after a couple of days absence, having a mini screaming party by themselves.

And when most of Germany experienced massive thunderstorms last Friday, I saw one swift taking shelter from the pouring rain under the protuding roof.

Click image for larger version

Name:	20190802_164558s.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	56.9 KB
ID:	701573

I've never seen that before!

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 6th August 2019, 18:25   #25
Xenospiza
Undescribed
 
Xenospiza's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In a drawer
Posts: 10,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
Hi,

It's a standard report in ornitho.de, just hidden a bit in their weird menu structure. (Look for "raster" something.)

(ornitho.de doesn't really do "citizen science" in my opinion, as they're not really making the data available to mere citizens.)
Found it, thanks. And I agree wholeheartedly... Still, it's better than nothing!

My last local Swift was on Thursday 1/8 (was away on Friday/Saturday).
Xenospiza is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ID Help: Common swift Vs Pallid swift ? C.Andres Bird Identification Q&A 10 Wednesday 6th June 2018 16:05
Common swift or pallid swift Kaan Ozgencil Bird Identification Q&A 3 Saturday 19th August 2017 20:33
common swift ? fredwille Bird Identification Q&A 2 Monday 28th November 2011 18:52
First Common Swift Valéry Schollaert Your Birding Day 3 Monday 15th August 2011 19:24
Pallid or Common Swift??? Shaggy2070 Bird Identification Q&A 4 Thursday 1st July 2010 20:59

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.16471910 seconds with 38 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 04:00.