Kowa BDII 8x32 vs. (older) Swaro CL 8x30 ? (1 Viewer)

justabirdwatcher · Nov 13, 2019

For those who have seen both, which would you recommend?

I'm ready to pull the trigger on one or the other, but I've only seen the older Swaro CL 8x32 and have had disappointing results from binoculars made in China, as the BDII is.

Thoughts?

mwhogue · Nov 13, 2019

justabirdwatcher said:
For those who have seen both, which would you recommend?

I'm ready to pull the trigger on one or the other, but I've only seen the older Swaro CL 8x32 and have had disappointing results from binoculars made in China, as the BDII is.

Thoughts?

JBW,

As I recall other members own or have tested and have posted comparisons of the two models you are considering and may weigh in here more specifically. Meantime, I own both the old and new SW CL 8x30 and the new Kowa in 6.5x32. Generally speaking, build quality, function and image quality of the Kowa are first rate especially for the price. Last I looked, prices for the old CL are still relatively high. If you can get the first model CL in the $650 range IMO opinion that would be a good buy, otherwise I would lean toward the Kowa.

Hope this helps,

Mike

justabirdwatcher · Nov 13, 2019

That is helpful Mike. I just missed a pair of the original 8x30 CL's for $625, which I consider a fair price. The size and handling of the CL's appeal to me. I'm a bit concerned about how short the barrels are on the Kowa's, as my hands are quite large.

I have a full size pair of 8x42's that I really like, but for day to day work, I would like to have a mid-size pair of x30/32's of good quality.

I realize you have the 6.5's but would you rate the image quality of the new Kowas on par with the CL's?

typo · Nov 13, 2019

justabirdwatcher said:
For those who have seen both, which would you recommend?
.......

I was one of a number here and met many elsewhere, (including several in the trade) that found the view of the original CL 8x30 unacceptably soft. I know others found it satisfactory.

I've only seen the Kowa BDII XD samples on show at the UK Birdfair in August. They were sharper than the CL, but while I found the CA acceptable in the 6.5x32, it was too high for me in both the 8x32 and 8x42, and worse still in the 10s. Kowa have brought unfinished preproduction samples to the show before, so I can't be sure how representative they are of those on the market I'm afraid.

David

justabirdwatcher · Nov 13, 2019

typo said:
I was one of a number here and met many elsewhere, (including several in the trade) that found the view of the original CL 8x30 unacceptably soft. I know others found it satisfactory.

I've only seen the Kowa BDII XD samples on show at the UK Birdfair in August. They were sharper than the CL, but while I found the CA acceptable in the 6.5x32, it was too high for me in both the 8x32 and 8x42, and worse still in the 10s. Kowa have brought unfinished preproduction samples to the show before, so I can't be sure how representative they are of those on the market I'm afraid.

David

Thank you for your input David. I have seen samples of the CL that I would also characterize as "too soft" for a Swaro. But lately I've seen sharper copies too. I am leaning toward the BDII 8x32 right now. If it's not sharp or bright enough, or if the handling doesn't suit me, I can always return it. I do like the way the CL's handle though. They are about the smallest binoculars that my big hands like. Anything smaller (including the M7 8x30's) just get lost in my hands.

dries1 · Nov 13, 2019

I have the BDII 8X32 and the 6.5X32. The 6.5X is the much better performer for what it is. If $$ is the reason to get the Kowa 8X32, fine, but no, I will take a Cl 8X30 all day. I have the SLC 8X30 neu, the resolution is above the Kowa 8X32. One can still get a good SLC 8x30 for a bit more than the Kowa, which after all is priced for what it is.

The only mechanical issue I have on the new Kowa is with the focus travel, very fast but not dampened like the original Nikon 10X32HG/LX (Venturer) - which also has an extremely fast focus, but can be tuned very easily..Of course it is a Nikon focus, and I am asking for too much.

Andy W.

gcole · Nov 13, 2019

justabirdwatcher said:
Thank you for your input David. I have seen samples of the CL that I would also characterize as "too soft" for a Swaro. But lately I've seen sharper copies too. I am leaning toward the BDII 8x32 right now. If it's not sharp or bright enough, or if the handling doesn't suit me, I can always return it. I do like the way the CL's handle though. They are about the smallest binoculars that my big hands like. Anything smaller (including the M7 8x30's) just get lost in my hands.

I also own both binoculars mentioned, the Swarovski(2015) 8x30 CL purchased old stock new recently. Also the Kowa 6.5x32 XD New. These are two different animals both Physically as well as Optically .. 6.5x vs 8x. Unless you have both in hand to compare, here you will only hear of other opinions based on others visions capabilities and handling preferences such as eye relief or focusing speed to mention a few. Having said this ... I find both binoculars very sharp/clear with image softness a personal viewing experience. We all have very different physical capabilities when it comes to how well we can see, whether it’s due to age or genetics. Since I have been a member of Bird Forum I have handled or owned many of the Binoculars and Scopes discussed here. Having agreed with many but not all when it comes to any one optics good or bad qualities. The only way you will ever be able to answer your original question based on your eyes, with your hands on handling .... you need to have both in hand to compare directly.

gcole · Nov 14, 2019

dries1 said:
I have the BDII 8X32 and the 6.5X32. The 6.5X is the much better performer for what it is. If $$ is the reason to get the Kowa 8X32, fine, but no, I will take a Cl 8X30 all day. I have the SLC 8X30 neu, the resolution is above the Kowa 8X32. One can still get a good SLC 8x30 for a bit more than the Kowa, which after all is priced for what it is

Andy W.

Well replied Andy ... A Swarovski or a Kowa , price wise no comparison. Optically a very personal opinion only with binocular in hand to know. As with me .... my 2015 Swarovski 8x30 CL or my Kowa BDII XD 6.5x32, the 8x30 CL all day. The Kowa is a really nice binocular, I like it a lot. It’s the best low power binocular I have ever owned/handled.

justabirdwatcher · Nov 14, 2019

Thank you for all the replies. They are very helpful.

I briefly owned a pair of 8x30 SLC (latest model) but couldn't really get along with the focus wheel placement, so I sold them rather than try to adapt, which was probably a mistake. They were certainly sharp enough.

I have outstanding vision, so I can quickly tell the difference between a very sharp optic and one that others may feel are "very sharp" but to my eyes are somewhat lacking. This makes it a little frustrating to buy optics though.

I would find it hard to believe that Kowa could make an optic at $400 that is as sharp as the Swaro 8x30 slc, but possibly the equal of the CL, since in my experience the CL is not always the equal of the little SLC.

But I keep an open mind and that is evidenced by the fact that I have bought and sold countless binoculars but still keep using my Sightron Blue Sky II's and Cabelas Outfitter HD's - for the reason that they resolve as well as my own eyes do, regardless of branding or price.

A2GG · Nov 14, 2019

I have no experience with the new Kowa BDII, but like GC I also have a 2015 CL 8x30 and find the image very satisfying.
It's not as super sharp as my newly acquired Z FL 8x32. It doesn't have strong/bold edge contrast, but has very good resolution, brightness and I especially like the colors. Lighter tones seem illuminated which makes for some pretty images in the right lighting. FOV is a bit narrow, but the sweet spot is pretty big. Ergonomics are wonderful and the low weight is a plus.

dries1 · Nov 14, 2019

I have the Fuji 8X32s the same as the sightrons, a nice low priced option, (except the glare is some lightning situations). I use them at work all the time when I have a free moment, like today a red-tail gets a field rodent, goes to a nearby large oak branch to have lunch,.... I am watching all the while (from the hunt to the feast), then out of the blue, three blue jays begin to harass him, comical actually. He did not miss a beat having lunch, he used wings to jab at them.

Andy W.

justabirdwatcher · Nov 14, 2019

After 4+ years, I am constantly amazed at how well the Sightrons resolve detail, but they are a bit dim in low light for my purposes. I was hoping to find something in the same size class that produces a brighter image.

mwhogue · Nov 14, 2019

JBW,

To respond first to your post #3, if you like the handling ergos of the previous CL as opposed to the newer version I think the Kowa 32 would be even better for you. Like you I prefer the overall handling of the old CL vs the new CL for my medium to large hands but I like handling of the Kowa 32 even better.

For context with regard to your question about comparing image quality and for commenting generally on the many other helpful responses here, someone recently posted a discussion of optical "quality" vs optical "characteristics" which I cannot fully recall/understand but seems particularly relevant here as the Kowa 6.5 is now included in the discussion. IMO the image "quality" of the new CL is superior to the Kowa 6.5 - slightly but noticeably sharper, brighter, and more color saturated. However for me the combination of the "characteristics" of the 6.5 image (and in a compact reasonably priced roof to boot) - huge FOV, AFOV, DOF and image stability as a result of 6.5 mag produce a uniquely rewarding overall viewing experience. Perhaps oddly for a 6.5 (?), it especially comes into its own when panning and scanning over great distance producing a viewing experience quite similar to a high quality IF poro. The image is also very natural like my eyes have been upgraded to 6.5 mag as opposed to looking through an excellent optic.

Mike

typo · Nov 14, 2019

justabirdwatcher said:
Thank you for your input David. I have seen samples of the CL that I would also characterize as "too soft" for a Swaro. But lately I've seen sharper copies too. I am leaning toward the BDII 8x32 right now. If it's not sharp or bright enough, or if the handling doesn't suit me, I can always return it. I do like the way the CL's handle though. They are about the smallest binoculars that my big hands like. Anything smaller (including the M7 8x30's) just get lost in my hands.

I tried the old CL many times, but rarely compared them against the same binoculars so couldn't rule out that they improved a bit with time, but the new CL was a whole lot better still when I compared them. I thought the colour and colour contrast improved too, but unsurprisingly couldn't quite match the EL.

I didn't spend enough time with the Kowa BDII to really absorb all their characteristics, but my recollection is that the transmission profile didn't seem as smooth as the CL for instance. There appeared to be a decent amount at both ends of the spectrum, but some colours and contrasts seemed a little altered, which some might prefer, and others not. Still much cleaner than say Fuji's version of the Sightron I reviewed a few years back, if that helps?

David

justabirdwatcher · Nov 14, 2019

Thank you again Mike and David.

Mike that is good to hear about the handling on the Kowa. Perhaps I should just go ahead and get a pair to finally see for myself.

One of the things I love about my Sightrons is the handling. Ergonomically, they are just about perfect to me.

I wanted to like my Monarch 7 8x30's more, but they were small enough to make handling difficult for my oversized hands. They felt like toy binoculars, which of course they are not. The CL's I've handled (older model) are the smallest single hinge I've used that still feel like real binoculars.

dries1 · Nov 15, 2019

The little Kowa is not for everyone, especially from an ergonomic point of view. But for the cost here in the US, a decent glass for the money. Give the 8X32s a shot, and let us know what you think of them. I am waiting for an 8X42.

Andy W.

gcole · Apr 20, 2020

Gilmore Girl said:
I have no experience with the new Kowa BDII, but like GC I also have a 2015 CL 8x30 and find the image very satisfying.
It's not as super sharp as my newly acquired Z FL 8x32. It doesn't have strong/bold edge contrast, but has very good resolution, brightness and I especially like the colors. Lighter tones seem illuminated which makes for some pretty images in the right lighting. FOV is a bit narrow, but the sweet spot is pretty big. Ergonomics are wonderful and the low weight is a plus.

Hi Beth, I am curious. I know you liked the view of your Cabelas(Meopta) 8x32 and sold these and eventually purchased the Zeiss 8x32FL .... If the Cabelas (Meopta) 8x32 or the Meopta B1.1 8x32 had the same handling characteristics such has your eye relief needs, would you have still purchased the Zeiss 8x32 given the large differences in cost between the two ?. I have handled the Zeiss and I understand why you like it so much, the view optically is the best I have ever seen in any 8x32 I have ever tried. I recently sold my first generation Swarovski CL 8x30 and decided to keep my newly purchased Meopta B1.1 8x32 because the optical differences between the two were so slight, the Meopta’s handling along with the better eye relief / eye placement was the deciding factor even though my 8x30 Swarovski smaller size made this a tough decision.

A2GG · Apr 20, 2020

gcole said:
Hi Beth, I am curious. I know you liked the view of your Cabelas(Meopta) 8x32 and sold these and eventually purchased the Zeiss 8x32FL .... If the Cabelas (Meopta) 8x32 or the Meopta B1.1 8x32 had the same handling characteristics such has your eye relief needs, would you have still purchased the Zeiss 8x32 given the large differences in cost between the two ?. I have handled the Zeiss and I understand why you like it so much, the view optically is the best I have ever seen in any 8x32 I have ever tried. I recently sold my first generation Swarovski CL 8x30 and decided to keep my newly purchased Meopta B1.1 8x32 because the optical differences between the two were so slight, the Meopta’s handling along with the better eye relief / eye placement was the deciding factor even though my 8x30 Swarovski smaller size made this a tough decision.

I would have kept the Meopta for sure if the eye relief was enough.
I was not happy it didn't work out. The ergonmics were wonderful I recall and
I was satisfied with the view although I can't remember it too much now.
I loved the simple and easy to set diopter. Only small issue was focus being stiffer than I prefer.
Before buying the FL, I searched for the Cabelas 8x32 again since I have new thinner eyeglass frames and thought it could work. I couldn't find any available anywhere for 2 weeks so I went with the FL. After having the FL for a while , those Cabelas suddenly popped up on eBay ... can't win.

I had to admit to myself recently that I prefer my Swaro CL 8x30 over the FL even though the Zeiss is better optically. I just really like the CL colors , ergonomics and lighter weight.

gcole · Apr 20, 2020

Yes, I see now there are some new for twice what I paid originally. Though I had to pay $150 more for the new Meopta 8x32 B1.1 theses have the 30 yr transferable warranty. Thanks for the reply .... Gwen

gcole · Apr 20, 2020

Gilmore Girl said:
I would have kept the Meopta for sure if the eye relief was enough.
I was not happy it didn't work out. The ergonmics were wonderful I recall and
I was satisfied with the view although I can't remember it too much now.
I loved the simple and easy to set diopter. Only small issue was focus being stiffer than I prefer.
Before buying the FL, I searched for the Cabelas 8x32 again since I have new thinner eyeglass frames and thought it could work. I couldn't find any available anywhere for 2 weeks so I went with the FL. After having the FL for a while , those Cabelas suddenly popped up on eBay ... can't win.

I had to admit to myself recently that I prefer my Swaro CL 8x30 over the FL even though the Zeiss is better optically. I just really like the CL colors , ergonomics and lighter weight.

For the new Meopta 8x32 B1.1 , even if one pays the regular price of $899.95 at SportOptics.Com, the Zeiss 8x32 FL is still on average a $1000. USA dollars more than the Meopta. Granted the Zeiss is a super nice binocular, alpha quality one of the best. I wonder where that markup is going ? Higher labor cost or just name brand profit.

Kowa BDII 8x32 vs. (older) Swaro CL 8x30 ? (1 Viewer)

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