Sand Martin or Pale Martin, Malaysia (1 Viewer)

I think the bird I photographed this morning is probably just a Sand Martin, but I'd appreciate the opinions of anyone familiar with both species.

Photos and notes can be seen
here

Thanks in advance

Dave

In my mind, your bird looks very brown in upperparts,
so I think it reminds probably more Sand Martin.
I don't see any greyish colour in upperparts...

See follow links.
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=BirdingTips;action=display;num=1144158702

http://www.hkbws.org.hk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Swifts_Swallows;action=display;num=1145366679

hannu said:

In my mind, your bird looks very brown in upperparts,
so I think it reminds probably more Sand Martin.
I don't see any greyish colour in upperparts...

See follow links.
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=BirdingTips;action=display;num=1144158702

http://www.hkbws.org.hk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Swifts_Swallows;action=display;num=1145366679

Click to expand...

Thanks Hannu,

I had come to the same conclusion after posting my pics - much too warm brown for Pale Martin.

Dave

Dave B said:

Thanks Hannu,

I had come to the same conclusion after posting my pics - much too warm brown for Pale Martin.

Dave

Click to expand...

You should check all possibilities, because there are probably many subspecies of Martins in the East and South Asia ! They mentioned a few of them in the HK links mentioned earlier post.

hannu said:

You should check all possibilities, because there are probably many subspecies of Martins in the East and South Asia ! They mentioned a few of them in the HK links mentioned earlier post.

Click to expand...

An interesting postscript,

I just received a reply from Paul Leader who says it's certainly a Pale Martin! Details of why and more pics on my blog.

Dave

I have a strong feeling that you have two kind of birds (species) in your pics:

First five pics set (added after your started on your thread): 1,2,4 are similar, if we compare tail [bird has a clear fork, long tail, back (rear part) looks longer behind the wings than the bird in pic 3, utc does not reach in the same level as in outermost tail feathers, spread tail looks a quite 'steady'], but bird in pic 3 differs clearly [without any fork (thus 'steady' closed tail (~rectangle), where outermost tfs are not longer than other tfs and that's why spread tail looks squarish/roundish), very short tail, back looks shorter behind the wings than bird in former pics, utc reach steady tail end], bird in pic 5 is probably similar as in pics 1,2,4. So probably bird in pics 1 & 2 & 4 & 5 is Sand and bird in pic 3 Pale.

Next six pics set (pics which we discuss first): There seems to be same phenomenon: probably bird in pic 6 differs from bird in pics 5 similar way as mentioned above. Pic 3-4 is difficult to estimate, but bird in pic 4 is probably same as in pic 6, because even tail is spread, it does not look clear squarish/roundish. Also bird in pic 3 looks like bird in pic 5, because spread tail looks squarish/roundish, although the view angle is difficult. In addition to bird in pic 3 has same level breast band as bird in pic 5. Pic 1 and 2 are difficult, but bird looks maybe more same as in pic 6????. So I suggest that bird in pics 1 & 2 & 4 & 6 are probably the same species (Rip rip) and bird in pics 3 & 5 other species (thus Rip diluta).