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AGW and rising sea levels

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Old Saturday 23rd March 2019, 20:08   #626
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. . .For all of his bloviating, Trump has been the most Israel-friendly President in that State's history
A “friend” of the current Israeli government, certainly, but simply as a pander to that part of his evangelical base (including your own sweet self, perhaps?) that supports Israeli expansionism for various nutty religious reasons.

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For someone to link him or his ardent supporters to antisemitism is rank stupidity.
A ridiculous remark. Among his “ardent supporters” are the members of just about every neo-Nazi, white supremacist and survivalist organization in the country. Idaho, by all accounts, is a hotbed of such organizations and I cannot believe that you’re unaware of them.
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Old Saturday 23rd March 2019, 21:55   #627
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Litebeam, on a more friendly note, have you had the chance to read Nohatch’s excellent explanation of the peer-review process yet (post #612)? A careful reading, I suspect, would go a long way towards clearing up your confusion on the subject.

Me, I just skimmed it. . ..
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Old Sunday 24th March 2019, 09:50   #628
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Originally Posted by fugl View Post
Litebeam, on a more friendly note, have you had the chance to read Nohatch’s excellent explanation of the peer-review process yet (post #612)? A careful reading, I suspect, would go a long way towards clearing up your confusion on the subject.

Me, I just skimmed it. . ..
Not a diametrically opposite point of view, but a necessary note of caution for the sake of balance IMHO

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420798/

There is also this to take into account

https://www.vox.com/latest-news/2019...lues-explained

and this

https://go.galegroup.com/ps/anonymou...36&p=AONE&sw=w
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Old Sunday 24th March 2019, 12:16   #629
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Not a diametrically opposite point of view, but a necessary note of caution for the sake of balance IMHO

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420798/

There is also this to take into account

https://www.vox.com/latest-news/2019...lues-explained

and this

https://go.galegroup.com/ps/anonymou...36&p=AONE&sw=w
Thanks - well worth the read
A strange but seemingly apt conclusion -
"How odd that science should be rooted in belief."

Somewhere in the deep dark recesses of my 68 posts in this thread was a link to an article/report/paper detailing gender bias in the publication of papers and the issuing/culling of invitations to speak at conferences - it was even more alarming than that ....




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Old Sunday 24th March 2019, 18:54   #630
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Not a diametrically opposite point of view, but a necessary note of caution for the sake of balance IMHO

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420798/

There is also this to take into account

https://www.vox.com/latest-news/2019...lues-explained

and this

https://go.galegroup.com/ps/anonymou...36&p=AONE&sw=w
Thought-provoking posting. Thanks for the input.

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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
...
A strange but seemingly apt conclusion -
"How odd that science should be rooted in belief."
..
Strange--and apt--indeed.

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Old Sunday 24th March 2019, 19:50   #631
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Not a diametrically opposite point of view, but a necessary note of caution for the sake of balance IMHO

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420798/

There is also this to take into account

https://www.vox.com/latest-news/2019...lues-explained

and this

https://go.galegroup.com/ps/anonymou...36&p=AONE&sw=w
Many thanks for the links—good stuff all. I was aware of the reproducibility “crisis”—which was in the news not so long ago—and the grumblings about peer review but the disquiet about statistical significance was new to me and I found the article on that subject particularly interesting

The qualms of scientists, of course, mean little to the average “climate denier” for whom the villains of the piece are the same right-wing bugaboos they variously attribute most of the world’s ills to: “socialists”, the “deep state”, international Jewish finance (yo there, litebeam!), one-worlders, Chinese “plots” aimed at weakening American “competitiveness” and/or (and weirdest of all and a particular favorite in the thread so far) a corrupt scientific establishment in the thrall of. . .What exactly? (nah, you can’t be serious!).
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Old Sunday 24th March 2019, 20:13   #632
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A strange but seemingly apt conclusion -
"How odd that science should be rooted in belief."
Really, “apt” in what way?. Surely not in respect to the discussion of AGW?

All human systems of thought are necessarily based on assumptions of one kind or other. Whatever other basis could there be? Calling these assumptions “beliefs” changes nothing.
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Old Monday 25th March 2019, 16:28   #633
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....
A ridiculous remark. Among his “ardent supporters” are the members of just about every neo-Nazi, white supremacist and survivalist organization in the country. Idaho, by all accounts, is a hotbed of such organizations and I cannot believe that you’re unaware of them.
Well into the weeds here, but watched DJT with B.N. sign an executive order on the Golan Heights this morning. Pretty amazing all that has happened between us and Israel in the last two years. Astounding developments for Middle Eastern Jews overall.

And we've been in Idaho for twelve years and have yet to see a single incidence of racism or "white" anything.
Lose the stupid talking points and open your biased mind. This country just endured two years of fictitious "Russia" collusion delusion. Democrats need to let the hate go, whether it's directed to Jews, this country or our POTUS.

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Old Monday 25th March 2019, 19:41   #634
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. . .[W]e've been in [North] Idaho for twelve years and have yet to see a single incidence (sic!) of racism or "white" anything.
“There are none so blind as those who will not see”.

“Negroes out of Sandpoint”——
https://www.boisestatepublicradio.or...egion#stream/0

Hate groups in North Idaho & vicinity —
https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map
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--Gerard Manley Hopkins

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Old Tuesday 26th March 2019, 05:58   #635
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“There are none so blind as those who will not see”.

“Negroes out of Sandpoint”——
https://www.boisestatepublicradio.or...egion#stream/0

Hate groups in North Idaho & vicinity —
https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map
A quick google search showed a history of racial bigotry in Reno, Nevada as well. I won't bother to post the links, you likely wouldn't open them anyway.
The point is evil can be found everywhere if one looks hard enough.

I've yet to meet a single person in this state who isn't kind to everyone of every color or sexual orientation.
Your hate-filled opinions won't change that fact.
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Old Tuesday 26th March 2019, 16:47   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugl View Post
..... The qualms of scientists, of course, mean little to the average “climate denier” for whom the villains of the piece are the same right-wing bugaboos they variously attribute most of the world’s ills to: “socialists”, the “deep state”, international Jewish finance (yo there, litebeam!), one-worlders, Chinese “plots” aimed at weakening American “competitiveness” and/or (and weirdest of all and a particular favorite in the thread so far) a corrupt scientific establishment in the thrall of. . .What exactly? (nah, you can’t be serious!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugl View Post
“There are none so blind as those who will not see”.

“Negroes out of Sandpoint”——
https://www.boisestatepublicradio.or...egion#stream/0

Hate groups in North Idaho & vicinity —
https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map
Apart from the perplexing discord between such sweeping generalisations and your fondness for Fundamental Attribution nits and Roget's Thesaurus, precisely none of that was warranted ....

Perhaps a time out is in order?
Or a spell over on the EMR thread??
Or, the One Nation party is always on the lookout for a 'type' ....




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Old Tuesday 26th March 2019, 18:30   #637
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Apart from the perplexing discord between such sweeping generalisations and your fondness for Fundamental Attribution nits and Roget's Thesaurus, precisely none of that was warranted ....

Perhaps a time out is in order?
Or a spell over on the EMR thread??
Or, the One Nation party is always on the lookout for a 'type' ....
My, my, what brought that on all of a sudden. . ..

What on earth is the One Nation party? And, please, keep your answer brief or I’d be “apt” to just skim it (post #632).
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--Gerard Manley Hopkins

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Old Saturday 30th March 2019, 14:38   #638
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Fastest-Thinning Greenland Glacier Threw NASA Boffins for a Loop -It's Actually Grown

https://www.space.com/greenland-glac...E76sr2pVXIxRDA



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Old Saturday 30th March 2019, 15:38   #639
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Nice article Chosun - happy to provide the original if anyone is interested.
Two points to note:
1) On balance the glacier still lost mass during 2016 & 2017 - it just lost a lot less than expected (and modeled) due to the NOA.
2) A nice example of solid observations that buck the trend yet get published in a high-ranking scientific journal. The peer review censor maffia must have been asleep when this one came through

Edit: additional commentary by Dr Marshall Shepherd: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marshal.../#6dc3e2192179

J
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Old Saturday 30th March 2019, 20:49   #640
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Chosun,

To put this into reasonable historical and scientific perspective I'd recommend reading section "4.2.1 Glaciers and Greenland ice sheet" in Judith Curry's 2018 "Special Report: Sea Level and Climate Change," pg. 24. Although I attached the article to an earlier post I suspect not many people read it. I've attached it again for those who may have missed/dismissed it.

Curry serves on [the] NASA Advisory Council Earth Science Subcommittee whose mission is to provide advice and recommendations to NASA on issues of program priorities and policy. She is a recent member of the NOAA Climate Working Group and a former member of the National Academies Space Studies Board and Climate Research Group. (from Wiki)

Ed
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File Type: pdf Curry J., Special Report- Sea Level Rise copy.pdf (2.67 MB, 7 views)
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Old Saturday 30th March 2019, 21:55   #641
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Judith Curry—An Appreciation

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...ate_scientists
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Old Monday 1st April 2019, 11:57   #642
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Chosun,

To put this into reasonable historical and scientific perspective I'd recommend reading section "4.2.1 Glaciers and Greenland ice sheet" in Judith Curry's 2018 "Special Report: Sea Level and Climate Change," pg. 24. Although I attached the article to an earlier post I suspect not many people read it. I've attached it again for those who may have missed/dismissed it.

Curry serves on [the] NASA Advisory Council Earth Science Subcommittee whose mission is to provide advice and recommendations to NASA on issues of program priorities and policy. She is a recent member of the NOAA Climate Working Group and a former member of the National Academies Space Studies Board and Climate Research Group. (from Wiki)

Ed
The Curry "Special Report" ignores a large and comprehensive body of literature and observations from the Greenland ice cap, including records spanning thousands of years. It is a classic example of cherry picking, as is pretty much everything else in the piece; and yes I have read it, read a fair few of the cited references, looked up the 'consensus view' papers that were often omitted or selectively quoted from, etc. It is a highly selective article and the author commits several academic no-no's (e.g. presenting ideas as her own that have been extensively published on already by others). I see no reason why anyone would recommend this, other than to reinforce already entrenched (and in this case erroneous) views.
I also want to point out that Prof. Curry left academia several years ago, and that she is not an expert on sea level rise (her specialty is in atmospheric physics). She is/was a highly distinguished scientist, so I am frankly baffled by the poor quality of this "special report".

I've attached two recent studies that provide a historical and scientific perspective of Greenland ice cap dynamics (neither was cited by Curry).
As always, happy to provide additional material if anyone is interested.

Cheers,
J
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Graeter et al 2018 Geophysical Research Letters.pdf (6.29 MB, 5 views)
File Type: pdf Trusel et al 2018 Nature.pdf (10.16 MB, 7 views)
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Old Wednesday 3rd April 2019, 02:38   #643
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Nohatch,

I'd encourage you to read this book first before announcing that she's clueless about sea-level dynamics.

From pg. 23 of the Curry report:
Quote:
Chen et al. (2017) provides an updated analysis of the budget of sea level rise during the
satellite era (Figure 4.2). The key finding is that global mean sea level rise increased
from 2.2 ± 0.3 mm/year in 1993 to 3.3 ± 0.3 mm/year in 2014. The mass contributions
(from glacier and ices melting) increased from about 50% in 1993 to 70% in 2014. The
largest increase has come from the contribution from the Greenland ice sheet, which is
less than 5% of the global mean sea level rate during 1993 but more than 25% during
2014. The increase in the rate of sea level rise is largely attributed to increased melting
of the Greenland ice sheet.
So what's the beef? I'm not at all convinced you read the report or have the knowledge to criticize it. The two reports you attached have to do with glacier dynamics, not sea-level rise.

Ed
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Old Saturday 6th April 2019, 21:17   #644
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“Removal of the overburden” and other atrocities—

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...logies/568309/
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Old Friday 12th April 2019, 07:39   #645
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Young Republicans more likely to acknowledge AGW than their elders—

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...climate-change
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Old Monday 22nd April 2019, 20:02   #646
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AGW—-an Earth Day compendium—

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...change-covers/
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Old Thursday 9th May 2019, 20:41   #647
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At long last department—

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...on-2020-226797
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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 18:09   #648
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Exclamation

Interesting considerations when you go beyond the simplistic solutions and blind leaps of faith .....
https://www.resilience.org/stories/2...-stop-running/
http://energyskeptic.com/2015/making...eriodic-table/




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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 20:56   #649
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Interesting considerations when you go beyond the simplistic solutions and blind leaps of faith .....

http://energyskeptic.com/2015/making...eriodic-table/




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This one is unbelievably out of date. Now down to close to $100 per kW/h.

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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 21:26   #650
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This one is unbelievably out of date. Now down to close to $100 per kW/h.

Rob
I posted this just as food for thought and as a launchpad for further research on specific current numbers.

It is not so much about the cost, as the efficiencies, resource limits, and the amounts of alternative energy required, particularly for heavy transport. It's quite sobering to think how the whole distribution system underpins the modern global economy.

The last time the world explored biofuels to any great extent the price of food crops soared to deleterious levels, and the world's soil resource is in worse condition since then, so the answer doesn't lie there.

Food for thought !




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