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Year listing "British" birds (1 Viewer)

Mono

Hi!
Staff member
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Europe
When it comes to year listing in Britain the building of a big list seems to be mainly down to ticking off the vagrants and blow ins. With dedication and a RBA subscription one can gather a bird list nearly as long as ones credit card statement. Such listing doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.

What does appeal however is trying to see all the native British birds as a planned venture. But I appreciate that "native British birds" is a poorly defined concept. The "British List" is merely a list of birds seen in Britain and has no concept of nativness. My starting point would be the current Collins guide, including everything with a W, P or B next to its name. But that would need updating, for example the Cattle Egret is marked V** but would now justify a rB5.

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on such a concept and on the basis for a list or if there are any such lists out there.

Thanks
 
I think it's a good idea; it can be a lot of fun. For example, this year I finally managed to see all 13 flycatcher (i.e. Muscicapidae) species regularly occurring in Germany. The downside of this approach is that you'll get fewer species in total than (e.g.) a French or German lister following the same rules in their countries.
Of course, if I were you, I'd still list the vagrants I get to see, even if only in a separate list.
 
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I don't understand why anyone would want to exclude some birds occurring naturally in the British Isles from their list. What about naturalised species? Are you going to pretend Canada Geese don't exist?

Are passage migrants native? If so, how many have to occur every year before you count them: Pallas's Warbler? Red-breasted Flycatcher? Richard's Pipit? Cory's Shearwater?

What about Surf Scoters - winter visitor or vagrant? They're guaranteed pretty much year round these days....

My advice would be to go and enjoy the birds (Cat A and C, let us know if you find any Bs), and stop trying to sub-categorise. Remember even a species is a human concept whose definition causes, lets say, discussion....

John
 
Depends how far you apply the word " native" and how far back you go. Little Owl was introduced to England a long, long time ago. What about Pheasant?
How do you treat Red Kite nowadays? I can recall visiting mid Wales to glimpse one of the last few remaining birds. Same for White-tailed Eagle. Seeing them in good numbers is a result of reintroduction schemes. Rough legged buzzard is a winter visitor. Honey Buzzard a rare summer breeder.
Only you can decide what is native and on your venture list but good luck?
 
Often a challenge is fun, but going the whole hog, chartering flights to st.kilda at the drop of a hat etc. is unpractical for most of us.

So do something that fits with your lifestyle..

Trying to build a massive day list,
seeing all the "regular" UK species,
seeing the UK or County list, but not restricting yourself to that area is a good long term one,
Birding by public transport only. etc etc
Get into Butterflies, Dragonflies etc.
Make your own rules
You can still enjoy the rares if they happen to be in your path!
 
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It's the term "native British birds" that is open to interpretation.

Meaning of native.....(Of a plant or animal) of indigenous origin or growth.

May mean a list of as little as c150 or much higher. Sounds a very disciplined task dependant on your parameters but could be great fun.
 
Depends how far you apply the word " native" and how far back you go. Little Owl was introduced to England a long, long time ago. What about Pheasant?
How do you treat Red Kite nowadays? I can recall visiting mid Wales to glimpse one of the last few remaining birds. Same for White-tailed Eagle. Seeing them in good numbers is a result of reintroduction schemes. Rough legged buzzard is a winter visitor. Honey Buzzard a rare summer breeder.
Only you can decide what is native and on your venture list but good luck?
Native or not doesn't depend on time, it depends on means of arrival - did it have human assistance or not?


I know that BOU don't agree, but I reckon that reintroductions of regionally extinct natives (Red Kite, WTEagle, etc.) should also count as native, and be put in as a subcategory of Category A, rather than a subcategory of Category C. But BOU won't countenance it.
 
I didn't mean to hung up the concept of native. The "how many angels can sit on the head of a pin" arguments around the British List can be frankly comical. The word regular is a much better one. The Canada Goose is much more a part of the British avifauna than the Tufted Puffin.

The challenge would be to go for a targeted year list. The problem is that if that target is "the most species", then one inevitably goes down the rabbit hole of the cheque book pursuit of, soon to be dead, accidentals.
If one could have a target list of the breeding, wintering and regular passage birds of Britain then one could plan a year of birding adventures, big and small, to see what % of N you could see.

I am not aware that such a list exists; it certainly is not the British List.
 
I didn't mean to hung up the concept of native. The "how many angels can sit on the head of a pin" arguments around the British List can be frankly comical. The word regular is a much better one. The Canada Goose is much more a part of the British avifauna than the Tufted Puffin.

The challenge would be to go for a targeted year list. The problem is that if that target is "the most species", then one inevitably goes down the rabbit hole of the cheque book pursuit of, soon to be dead, accidentals.
If one could have a target list of the breeding, wintering and regular passage birds of Britain then one could plan a year of birding adventures, big and small, to see what % of N you could see.

I am not aware that such a list exists; it certainly is not the British List.

Its surely the obverse of BBRC's list of reportable species within Cats A and C of the BOU list? - If it ain't a BB, its a regular! You might want to do some tweaking at the edges e.g. Tawny Pipit, but I reckon its a solid starting point.

Otherwise the front of the Shell Guide, if you can find a copy in a second-hand bookshop.

John
 
Gaining momentum and shape for your list. It's that fine balance between a species that is regular e.g., Water Pipit during the winter, and a real off course stray, American Buff-bellied Pipit or Olive-backed Pipit. Where would Tawny Pipit stand John?
Compiling your list could be a bit of a challenge, but please don't publish it on here. 3:)
 
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"If one could have a target list of the breeding, wintering and regular passage birds of Britain then one could plan a year of birding adventures, big and small, to see what % of N you could see.

I am not aware that such a list exists; it certainly is not the British List."

as John hinted at though, in all 3 of those categories there is no clear boundary between regular and accidental species. Just degrees of rarity.
There are regular breeding species that are nonetheless mega rare and not much easier to see as non-breeders without twitching (e.g. marsh warbler).
There are species that winter every year but at extremely low numbers e.g. surf scoter as John said - is that native or not?
And for passage only birds there is a complete continuum from common to recorded less than annually (and beyond to recorded just once). Where you draw the line between native and accidental on this list is completely arbitrary.

So the only answer if you want such a list is to come up with it yourself. No-one else will have done so. I would suggest a starting point would be to work out all the species you might be able to see in a given year without twitching, i.e. species with known sites or at the very least known occurence patterns. This is similar to a self-found list but less stringent in that you are allowed to visit known sites.

best of luck!

James
 
"If one could have a target list of the breeding, wintering and regular passage birds of Britain then one could plan a year of birding adventures, big and small, to see what % of N you could see.

I am not aware that such a list exists; it certainly is not the British List."

as John hinted at though, in all 3 of those categories there is no clear boundary between regular and accidental species. Just degrees of rarity.
There are regular breeding species that are nonetheless mega rare and not much easier to see as non-breeders without twitching (e.g. marsh warbler).
There are species that winter every year but at extremely low numbers e.g. surf scoter as John said - is that native or not?
And for passage only birds there is a complete continuum from common to recorded less than annually (and beyond to recorded just once). Where you draw the line between native and accidental on this list is completely arbitrary.

So the only answer if you want such a list is to come up with it yourself. No-one else will have done so. I would suggest a starting point would be to work out all the species you might be able to see in a given year without twitching, i.e. species with known sites or at the very least known occurence patterns. This is similar to a self-found list but less stringent in that you are allowed to visit known sites.

best of luck!

James

What about targeting species that were known to be breeding or attempting to breed in any particular year?

May be tricky in relation to the withholding of certain species nesting sites though.
 
What about targeting species that were known to be breeding or attempting to breed in any particular year?

May be tricky in relation to the withholding of certain species nesting sites though.

I should think most things that are likely to have a breeding attempt after extirpation by eggers or the huntin' shootin' fishin' fraternity are likely to also occur as reasonably targetable spring/autumn migrants without the necessity to disturb sensitive breeding sites (even if available): Red-backed Shrike would be an obvious example of this.

Corncrake by contrast would be a bird best found under the controlled conditions of a breeding reserve e.g. watching from the car window at Balranald. One size doesn't fit all but that's half the fun isn't it?

IMHO Tawny Pipit, though not a BB rarity, falls into the realms of very difficult, as the last couple of days' short-staying records have demonstrated all too clearly. Bee-eater, if breeding, might be easy, but if not, would be very difficult.

Anyway, I would expect to have lots of fun. But like others, I don't see why a BB down the road should be excluded if snapped up, and not to do so would border on unnatural!

Best of luck, and I'd like to see the list up here, it would give us something to discuss in the long winter evenings :t:

John
 
Obviously you start with the British List and deduct BB rarities. If you then wanted 'native' birds by which I understand you to mean birds that are ordinarily seen with regularity in Britain either as residents, summer or winter visitors, you would then deduct the species included in the BB scarce migrant reports.

This includes 'non-rarities' such as American Wigeon, White-billed Diver, Glossy Ibis, etc. It includes Cattle but not Little Egret and I would consider that to be appropriate though Cattle Egret is on the verge of becoming more regular (probably). These are up to date lists whereas field guide lists are plainly only up to the date of their publication.

As you would expect for a book published in 1983, the Shell Guide is not a modern designation. Some species in the main body are at least now scarce migrants and at least one for periods has been a rarity. In converse, from the vagrant section, Little and Great White Egrets and Crane are now 'native' species.

All the best
 
As with all lists it is down to the individual as to what they consider should be include, but I agree with the general thrust that BB rarities should be excluded, After that individual species would be open to discussion as frequency may well vary from year to year etc.

Anyone out there brave enough to stick their head above the parapet? I am sure it would be a lively discussion once you get down to individual cases.
 
Scarce Migrant Birds from the 2016 reports (ie 'rarest' non-rarities) in descending order of individuals with 2010-2016 average in brackets:-

Yellow-browed Warbler - 4,500 (1,984)
Cory's Shearwater - 1,462 (659)
Wryneck- 453 (425)
Siberian Chiffchaff - 434 (248)
Caspian Gull - 362 (2014-16 average)
Grey Phalarope - 347 (328)
Great Grey Shrike - 270 (266)
Cattle Egret - 192 (59)
Red-breasted Flycatcher - 174 (142)
Little Bunting - 169 (73)
Red-backed Shrike - 146 (200)
Pallas's Leaf Warbler - 138 (54)
Barred Warbler - 136 (251)
Hoopoe - 125 (127)
Richard's Pipit - 119 (117)
Sabine's Gull - 112 (186)
Bluethroat - 97 (68)
Common Rosefinch - 96 (171)
Pectoral Sandpiper - 95 (153)
Icterine Warbler - 76 (89)
Glossy Ibis - 72 (82)
Temminck's Stint - 71 (104)
Dusky Warbler - 70 (28)
Green-winged Teal - 63 (41)
European Serin - 58 (39)
Golden Oriole - 50 (85)
Ortolan Bunting - 44 (33)
Greenish Warbler - 37 (28)
Buff-breasted Sandpiper - 36 (44)
Red-necked Phalarope - 32 (42)
White Stork - 30 (28)
Wilson's Storm-petrel - 30 (16)
Grey-headed Wagtail - 29 (28)
European Bee-eater - 28 (127)
Woodchat Shrike - 28 (31)
American Wigeon - 28 (18)
Rose-coloured Starling - 27 (37)
Olive-backed Pipit - 26 (33)
White-billed Diver - 26 (25)
Subalpine Warbler - 26 (22)
Rough-legged Buzzard - 25 (71)
Marsh Warbler - 25 (46)
White-winged Black Tern - 25 (18)
Radde's Warbler - 25 (14)
Purple Heron - 22 (24)
Spotted Crake - 22 (24)
American Golden Plover - 22 (24)
Arctic Redpoll - 22 (10)
Short-toed Lark - 21 (22)
Melodious Warbler - 20 (20)
Blyth's Reed Warbler - 18 (18)
Ring-necked Duck - 17 (21)
Red-rumped Swallow - 15 (39)
Black Kite - 15 (23)
Surf Scoter - 15 (15)
Black Brant - 15 (14)
Red-footed Falcon - 12 (14)
White-rumped Sandpiper - 11 (18)
Ring-billed Gull - 9 (16)
Citrine Wagtail - 9 (15)
Kentish Plover - 9 (10)
Night Heron - 8 (14)
Alpine Swift - 6 (13)
Penduline Tit - 6 (11)
Ferruginous Duck - 6 (6)
Lesser Scaup - 3 (7)

*excluding breeding birds

All the best
 
Of those scarce migrants, I would only include as 'native' ie ordinarily seen with regularity in Britain either as residents, summer or winter visitors or passage migrants:-

Yellow-browed Warbler - 4,500 (1,984)
Cory's Shearwater - 1,462 (659)
Wryneck- 453 (425)
Siberian Chiffchaff - 434 (248)
Caspian Gull - 362 (2014-16 average)
Grey Phalarope - 347 (328)
Great Grey Shrike - 270 (266)
Cattle Egret - 192 (59)
Red-breasted Flycatcher - 174 (142)
Little Bunting - 169 (73)
Red-backed Shrike - 146 (200)
Pallas's Leaf Warbler - 138 (54)
Barred Warbler - 136 (251)
Hoopoe - 125 (127)
Richard's Pipit - 119 (117)
Sabine's Gull - 112 (186)
Bluethroat - 97 (68)
Common Rosefinch - 96 (171)
Pectoral Sandpiper - 95 (153)
Icterine Warbler - 76 (89)
Glossy Ibis - 72 (82)
Temminck's Stint - 71 (104)
European Serin - 58 (39)
Golden Oriole - 50 (85)
Red-necked Phalarope - 32 (42)
White-billed Diver - 26 (25)
Rough-legged Buzzard - 25 (71)
Marsh Warbler - 25 (46)
Spotted Crake - 22 (24)
Ring-necked Duck - 17 (21)
Surf Scoter - 15 (15)

Some of these appear surprisingly scarce presumably as a result of excluding breeding birds or returning birds. Additionally, of course, Siberian Chiffchaff and Grey-headed Wagtail are subspecies.

All the best
 
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