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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (2 Viewers)

The quality of the sightings is also important. From what I've read the observers have had anywhere from "very good" to "poor" looks at the IBW. Also, in 1987 when the Ivorybill was found "again" in Cuba, it took several trips to verify what was actually being seen. Once the teams returned to the famous "Ojito de Agua" sector and viewed the birds repeatedly, it was then validated. To my knowledge though, no photo was taken of the 1987-1988 Cuban IBWs.
 
from all accounts..... there are some sour grapes.. from some "experts" that were not included in the search or evaluation......
 
disputes

News today is that 3 experts are questioning the discovery. A White Paper is due out soon and one of the contributers is Jerome Jackson. He is not questioning that there are Ivory Bills out there but he is questioning this sighting.?Please discuss.
 
Until I see the white paper I can't say anything more than what Choupique has said three comments above on the same matter.

Mark
Bastrop, TX
 
I find it sadly ironic that Jerome Jackson, who fought to keep the USFWS from declaring the ivory-bill extinct, who entitled the epilogue of his book "The truth is out there," will now have his name permanently associated with a paper questioning the very evidence he has sought for so long. No one values scientific skepticism more than I do. But, as Gallagher observed, science has never yet done right by this bird. Let's remember that this is not the first or second time the ivory-bill has been "rediscovered." Each rediscovery sooner or later is followed by "but NOW they're certainly extinct." The habitat destruction resumes. The skepticism that was so witheringly applied to sightings was not directed at the dogma that the bird was extinct.

Within a few years I think a decent photo of an ivory-bill will be obtained, probably by a remote camera. No doubt it will be the subject of more debate. But such debate misses what is important. When multiple observers starting seeing Elvis last year, they doubted themselves. Ron Rohrbaugh was about 85% sure he had seen an ivory-bill. Jim Fitzpatrick was 98.5% sure. Mindy LaBranche was 99% sure. Gallagher asked her, "What's all this crap I keep hearing about people being 90% sure, 95% sure? What is it about your sighting that gives you the one percent of doubt?" And Mindy shot back, "Because that bird is freaking extinct!"

This bird and its habitat have suffered enough from egotism and academic concerns about careers and reputations. It is very easy to sit back and say "prove it to me." It is very easy to say, "If they were out there, someone would have seen them," and then proceed to dismiss every sighting year after year. It is time for the dogma of ivory-bill extinction to die, and I think it is finally happening. If we are chasing a wild goose, let me be the first in line.
 
fangsheath said:
I find it sadly ironic that Jerome Jackson, who fought to keep the USFWS from declaring the ivory-bill extinct, who entitled the epilogue of his book "The truth is out there," will now have his name permanently associated with a paper questioning the very evidence he has sought for so long.


Could someone please explain the reasons that lay behind why Jerome Jackson was NOT "invited" to be among the 'team' of researchers in Arkansas?

If we have THAT answer, we may be able to understand his position NOW a little better.

Thanks,
TimeShadowed
 
I received this on my Ohio bird listserv:

Three scientists have a paper in the works at the Public Library of Science
challenging the report in Science. No details have been released, but there are
other signs of doubt.

David Allen Sibley, the prominent American birder and the author of popular
field guides, said Thursday that he had concluded that in the Science paper,
"the evidence they've presented falls short of proof."

Mr. Sibley said he decided this independently of the three scientists who wrote
the rebuttal, although he had been in contact with them.

Kenn Kaufman, another major birding author, also said in an interview that he
was not satisfied with the evidence. Although he said he believed the sighting
was real, he did not think the re-discoverers had proved their case.

Mr. Harrison said that he could not comment on an unpublished paper, but that
he was confident in the finding, and welcomed a scientific discussion.

"I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner," Mr. Harrison said.

Nor do the critics question his integrity or that of Mr. Gallagher or of the
other authors of the Science paper.

"The people who originally announced this thoroughly believe they got an
ivory-billed woodpecker," said Mark B. Robbins of the University of Kansas, one
of the three scientists preparing the challenge to the Science report. "They
believe one thing, we believe another. This is how science plays out, the
fabric of science getting at the truth."

Except that with the ivory bill, nothing is ever business as usual. Even when
it was common, the bird had a certain majesty and mystery. For the last 50
years it has been a symbol of loss, and of human failure. Most people were
afraid to hope.

So the report in Science, reviewed by other researchers, with multiple
sightings over the course of a year by respected observers, and a blurry
videotape that was exhaustively analyzed, was greeted with almost religious
fervor.

Mr. Kaufman described the initial reaction as: "The bird is back from the
grave. Eureka! We're saved."

Pete Dunne, vice president of the New Jersey Audubon Society and a prolific
author on birds, said he was one of many who thought the ivory bill was gone
for good.

"If someone had said to me, what was more likely, the rediscovery of the
ivory-billed woodpecker or the Second Coming, unhesitantly I would have gone to
the latter."

He is now a firm believer. "The credentials of the people who saw this are
stellar," he said.

Usually, scientists and birders are skeptical. In fact, Mr. Kaufman said, "I've
actually been shocked that virtually everyone has been embracing this."

He added, "I do in fact believe that there was a bird there last year, but it
hasn't been proven and we could have a more honest discussion if people accept
the fact that we don't have proof."

Mr. Sibley is unconvinced. At first, he, too, was elated, and went down to
Arkansas for 10 days to look for the ivory bill without success.

It was only when he returned, he said, that he began to think critically about
the Science report. "It's really crushing to come to the conclusion that it
might not be true, that there is room for some reasonable doubt."

He has been reluctant to speak publicly about his doubts, and described
doubters as being treated as "heretics" in online discussions.

The reason he is speaking out now, he said, is that he worried that money might
be diverted from other conservation efforts.

What he said he wanted, for proof, was "redundancy. Repeated sightings by
independent observers of birds really well seen."

This is what Mr. Harrison wants, more than anything. And he understands the
skeptics, because he has been one. But this time, he and his colleagues are
following in the long tradition of Mr. Dennis and the late Dr. Lowery. "I know
the bird is there," he said.

Mike
 
During the dog days of summer, the mind begins to think and rethink everything. The skepticism will mount. Whatever the results of the next few years of searching, the Ivorybill will go down as being seen in 2004. The evidence presented is good enough that it was widely accepted and nothing will ever be able to change the evidence unless David Luneau comes forward and says something like "I faked the video" which isn't going to happen. So whether we like it or not, the result of all this commotion is an Ivorybill sighting that can't be ignored. The video will always exist and the sightings by the authorities have been made. Sure you can challenge it - science at work - but it won't undo anything.
 
he(JJ) was not involved in the pearl search either....


EVERYONE... could not be included..... the people in charge had their reason(s)
 
Well, probably they mean "proving" in good old XIX century style - shot Ivory-billed Woodpecker on sight and present the skin.
 
I noticed Jerome Jackson did not appear in the article above. Do we have multiple papers coming out challenging the sightings?
As for the need for multiple sightings, am I mistaken or have there not been at least 18 reported observations leading to this disclosure? And have we taken the time to review carefully the unpublished at least reasonably credible observations of recent years preceding this report?
Independent? I am sorry but any birder that makes a report is going to be accused of having some stake in the matter.

Mark
Bastrop, TX
 
jurek said:
Well, probably they mean "proving" in good old XIX century style - shot Ivory-billed Woodpecker on sight and present the skin.

I'm probably being silly, but I wish stuff like this wouldn't be mentioned. I know no harm was meant, but you never know but what some idiot out there reading the internet might get some ideas.
 
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humminbird said:
I noticed Jerome Jackson did not appear in the article above. Do we have multiple papers coming out challenging the sightings?
As for the need for multiple sightings, am I mistaken or have there not been at least 18 reported observations leading to this disclosure? And have we taken the time to review carefully the unpublished at least reasonably credible observations of recent years preceding this report?
Independent? I am sorry but any birder that makes a report is going to be accused of having some stake in the matter.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

Sadly, sometimes I think some of this IBWO saga may not be about the bird, but more about egos. That thought also extends back to the '60s when the Dennis audio tape was so quickly dismissed by the birding establishment.
 
gws said:
Sadly, sometimes I think some of this IBWO saga may not be about the bird, but more about egos. That thought also extends back to the '60s when the Dennis audio tape was so quickly dismissed by the birding establishment.
I suspect hat you are right. I believe that the only proof that will really satisfy the sceptics is to see the bird for themselves.
A lot has been said about the quality of the video but not much is being said about the sound records and their analysis as described in the last couple of pages of Gallagher's book. Yes, the video is poor but when added to the sound recordings and to the reports from a lot of very qualified people it seems to me that the evidence is starting to pretty conclusive in favour of the IBWO being out there. Many of the people involved are risking their careers by reporting sightings. Why would they do so if their weren't pretty confident of the accuracy of their reports?
 
Well, let's see what we have here. Jerome Jackson is an Ivory-bill expert, but he was not taken into the confidence of the rediscovery team before their big announcement in April. He's p****d from being snubbed, so now doubts the whole thing, and he's ready to say so in print. David Sibley apparently had no problem with the rediscovery report until he wasted 10 days in Arkansas without seeing an Ivory-bill. So now he's p****d and has concluded that maybe nobody saw one. The question hangs: did he go kayaking, or did he just try to see one from a roadside turnout? It's not clear whether Kaufman also went on a fruitless expedition to Arkansas or maybe he just got to stewing a lot about it while sitting in his study. This rediscovery, which appears to be a good thing to many, is a threat to others. Careers have been built on the assumption that the Ivory-bill is extinct, and that premise is now in doubt, so even bonafide experts who've seen the birds are having their credibility attacked. Is it any surprise that lesser birders (e.g. David Kulivan) don't even want to talk about it anymore?
 
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