Juv. Yellow-legged v Lesser Black-backed Gulls (1 Viewer)

The more I look at these the more confused I get. Any pointers gratefully received.

The photos were taken in the last week in the North East of England. There are two birds pictured with two photos of each.

First bird looks a fairly typical juv LBBG: Well defined greater covert 'bar', dark underwing coverts, primary 'window' not very obvious (as it should be on LBB) and small/slim bill.

The second bird looks much more in the ball park of what I'd expect of a juv YLG, in fact I'm struggling to see why it's not one. On a sea watch it would probably be chalked down as one and no-one would question it in most counties. Tail band looks the correct shape, primary window is there (could be paler, but that often alters with angle), bill looks heavy, underwing looks ok (what can be seen of it).

If I'm being picky the upper tail is quite heavily spotted, and the inner primaries are perhaps in the 'is it or isn't it?' zone, but I'm sure both are well within the 'normal' range for YLG. Where you live in Co Durham this is still a description species (I'm sure you already know this) so proving it is one beyond doubt might be harder on these images. Ideally you'd want a textbook specimen to be sure of acceptance, and it would be good to see the state of moult in the scaps, coverts etc to clinch it, but of course that's going to be difficult at the distance you were viewing.

Be interested to see what Lou thinks of this one...

Thanks Steve.

It seems that most commentary on identification of juv. Yellow-legged Gulls is how to tell from Herring, but in my mind Lesser Black-backed is often harder to rule out.

I share your opinion. Living at Spain were the usual big gull pair is LBBG/YLG and difficulties with first plummages are everyday's meal, I am quite surprised that most of the effort in the Western Palearctic (even those dealing only with gulls) current guides is mostly devoted to separate HG vs YLG

Mark Harper said:

Thanks Steve.

It seems that most commentary on identification of juv. Yellow-legged Gulls is how to tell from Herring, but in my mind Lesser Black-backed is often harder to rule out.

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fdokykcu said:

I share your opinion. Living at Spain were the usual big gull pair is LBBG/YLG and difficulties with first plummages are everyday's meal, I am quite surprised that most of the effort in the Western Palearctic (even those dealing only with gulls) current guides is mostly devoted to separate HG vs YLG

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Fully agree. Some of the literature has a bit of catching up to do :smoke: