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Lynx joins with Cornell

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Old Thursday 14th March 2019, 06:39   #51
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I asked for help with a database entry yesterday and got this reply. Not quite sure what to make of it other than to note that similar previous communications have been good and helpful...consequence of this takeover move?

"Dear Mark,

I regret we cannot give you support on this.

Best wishes,

HBW Alive"
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Old Thursday 14th March 2019, 07:05   #52
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Old Friday 15th March 2019, 11:08   #53
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Another missive (missile?) from the front line received yesterday (14/3):

"We are pleased to announce that the Internet Bird Collection and the Macaulay Library and eBird at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology are joining forces. For nearly two decades, the Internet Bird Collection (IBC) has engaged a global community of birdwatchers to share their videos, sounds, and photos of birds from around the world. The IBC is full of tremendous contributors and resources that will soon find a new home with the Macaulay Library at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology—a multimedia archive of birds, mammals, amphibians, reptiles, and insects. This new collaboration will leverage the long-term archival capabilities of the 90-year-old Macaulay Library (ML) and the powerful online tools for birders developed by eBird. The IBC has played an important role in providing media resources for the HBW Alive, and the Cornell Lab of Ornithology plans to carry that critical work forward into the new "Birds of the World" project currently under development at the Lab. Your contributions to the IBC have been critical, and we greatly value the opportunity to engage with you during this time of transition and ensure that your hard work and efforts around media can be put to their best potential use.

IBC contributors will enjoy many benefits on the new platform, such as a streamlined data entry experience at eBird, full integration with eBird’s listing and birding tools, and the permanent archival capabilities of the Macaulay Library. Users will be able to take advantage of eBird’s features and Macaulay Library tools, which includes features such as the ability to upload more than one file at a time from the same date and location.

How will it work? With your explicit permission, we plan to shift every user’s IBC data over to the Macaulay Library and eBird at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology. Historic media from the IBC will be treated as a distinct collection in the ML/eBird database, and each asset brought in through this process will have the IBC brand associated with it. When logged into their accounts, users will see their IBC contributions. Moving forward, eBird (the website eBird.org and associated mobile app) will be the data entry platform for uploading videos, sounds, and photos. Media uploaded after the merger via eBird will be treated as a part of the rapidly growing global resources of the Macaulay Library and eBird at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology.

Free Access: As always, all contributors and visitors will have free online access to uploaded materials and the Cornell Lab is committed to keeping similar IBC functionality.

Timing: We expect the transition to take 6–8 months. In the interim, the current IBC site will remain active and you will be able to access the site as usual. We anticipate a process in which users will not experience a gap in service. We will inform users of the transition progress, and carefully track any issues that may arise.

Communications: Several key steps will need to be taken to ensure your data and media are successfully transferred to the Macaulay Library: 1. Users need to provide explicit permission for Lynx to share their contact information with the Cornell Lab; 2. Users need to agree to a non-exclusive licensing agreement (see below) in order for their media to be transferred, archived, and accessible online; 3. Users who do not have a Cornell Lab/eBird account will need to create a Cornell Lab account so that we can associate your IBC data with your new account. Detailed, simple-to-follow directions for each of these steps will follow.

Copyright and licensing agreement: The Cornell Lab’s media licensing agreement states that the contributor retains the copyright to each piece of contributed media, and that the Lab cannot sell your media to a third party for commercial use without explicit permission from the contributor. The Cornell Lab can use your media for education, conservation, and research—to fulfill its mission.

Is the transition mandatory? The goal is to shift the entire IBC collection over to the Macaulay Library, and transition IBC contributors into the eBird/Macaulay Library suite of tools moving forward. At the end of this process, Lynx will retire the current version of the IBC. We hope to work closely and carefully to transition every IBC user over successfully. If you choose not to opt-in to this transition, your media uploaded to the current IBC will no longer be accessible online. It will not be transferred to the Macaulay Library or be available via the IBC. We hope you do not choose this path, and we look forward to working with you.

We hope you share in our excitement at this time of change. We are here to provide support and ensure a smooth transition. We are working hard so that the level of service and scholarship provided by the Cornell Lab resources will continue to meet and exceed your expectations. Stay tuned for more information regarding the transition. Please visit MacaulayLibrary.org for more information and updates throughout the transition process. At any time please feel free to contact Eliot Miller ([email protected]) if you have any questions or concerns.

Good birding!"
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Old Friday 15th March 2019, 23:52   #54
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Still nothing about how they intend to deal with the different taxonomies of the two organizations, although you wouldn't expect them to get into that sort of detail at this point.

There's upwards of a thousand points of difference between the two; my guess is that the people at Cornell will identify them and perhaps incorporate some or many of them in the Clements/eBird taxonomy. As for the others, well, eBird already has technology which they apply to existing users when their taxonomy changes, to modify their sighting information based on geography. I expect that Cornell will use that technology to shoe-horn the data from Lynx users into eBird based on geography.

It's even possible that Cornell will make this into an opportunity to reduce their dependency on the AOS for taxonomy changes and set their own course. They already took a tiny step in that direction by splitting Mallard and Mexican Duck. But I would classify that idea as highly speculative for now.
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Old Saturday 16th March 2019, 11:15   #55
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I used macaulaylibrary few years ago to get sounds of mammals. I remember that the website of macaulay library was quite slow and difficult to use, especially clicking through some taxonomic tree up and down. I am a bit worried about ease of access.

(BTW, if anybody is interested, I hoped be able to identify shrieks or howls one sometimes hears at night. Unfortunately, in the following years I added no interesting mammal sightings or identifications this way).
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Old Saturday 16th March 2019, 16:57   #56
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For birds: go to ebird.org, click explore, enter a name in explore species to get a page like this: https://ebird.org/species/paltyr3
Scroll down a little for media

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Old Saturday 16th March 2019, 17:04   #57
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Offhand, this looks a lot like "hosting photos and videos is really expensive, let's not do that for free", and nothing more.
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Old Saturday 16th March 2019, 18:25   #58
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Originally Posted by awiner View Post
Offhand, this looks a lot like "hosting photos and videos is really expensive, let's not do that for free", and nothing more.
you mean that is why Lynx is happy to get rid of this, it was not the cash cow they hoped?

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Old Saturday 16th March 2019, 19:32   #59
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Offhand, this looks a lot like "hosting photos and videos is really expensive, let's not do that for free", and nothing more.
Completely agree Adam,
how's that IOC update coming?

I'm away at the moment with no access so not sure if you've finished.
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Old Saturday 16th March 2019, 22:04   #60
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So having a play with eBird as I already have an account (had some checklists shared with me so signed up to view them).

Tried adding some observations from my apartment earlier this month: 3 species: Eurasian Jackdaw, Great Tit and Eurasian Greenfinch.

In HBW I can assign them each to the particular sub-species I want. In eBird...not the case apparently: Jackdaw is only available at the species level; my Parus major major Great Tit has to go in as Great Tit (major group) and the Greenfinch also stops at the species binomial.

What use is that? All I see is dumbing down. Wouldn't mind so much if I couldn't follow links from eBird to the inferior Clements (I favour IOC) where all it's recognised sub-species are shown!

My only immediate solution is to use the "detail" field to manually add the sub-species which is both tedious and unnecessary (if HBWs database can carry all the subspecies then so can eBird surely?)

Anyone more familiar with eBird able to correct/convince me this is progress or shall I just focus my efforts to Scythebill in future? No evangelism from eBird lovers please...you know you exist...

Screenshots: HBW; eBird; Clements excel accessed from eBird
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 01:51   #61
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Not sure if this solves your subspecies problem but there is a checkbox for showing subspecies on the input page.
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 05:54   #62
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Vote with your feet / mouse, they'll soon get the message!
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 06:49   #63
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Not sure if this solves your subspecies problem but there is a checkbox for showing subspecies on the input page.
That was checked so glitch?

Will try again today
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 13:15   #64
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Ebird uses the group concept, where subspecies need some degree of diagnosability in the field. Even though at first glance it might seem stupid, I believe that it's actually quite good. Did you really identify any of the mentioned birds to subspecific level? Or did you just assume their ID on range? I have hundreds of subspecies on my HBW list, that I have absolutely no clue about how to distinguish them from the other subspecies I have, e.g. Blue Tit in different parts of Europe. The ID was always assumed on range, never ever did I think "Oh, this one looks different"... You get my point?!

The "show subspecies" checkbox therefore only works for subspecies groups...
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 14:54   #65
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Ebird uses the group concept, where subspecies need some degree of diagnosability in the field. Even though at first glance it might seem stupid, I believe that it's actually quite good. Did you really identify any of the mentioned birds to subspecific level? Or did you just assume their ID on range? I have hundreds of subspecies on my HBW list, that I have absolutely no clue about how to distinguish them from the other subspecies I have, e.g. Blue Tit in different parts of Europe. The ID was always assumed on range, never ever did I think "Oh, this one looks different"... You get my point?!

The "show subspecies" checkbox therefore only works for subspecies groups...
This can lead to difficulties where a species is split. Take "Golden Spectacled" Warbler for example: the ebird records are a complete dog's dinner, as most older records would have had no sub-species attached to them. The database now seemingly contains a mix of P.burkii s.l. and s.s.
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 15:46   #66
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Golden-spectacled warbler is not a very good example, because before the split almost nobody had a clue about their variation and the taxons involved, and especially, because there are several sympatric species almost almost everywhere in the distribution area, so no specific identification can be based on locality.

It is easy to find better examples, like Eastern and Western Yellow Wagtail. But here we see another problem - subspecies are often separable, but very often no. Then there would have to be a "unidentified eastern subspecies" even before the split, and nobody could have anticipated the split that way. But of course, there are plenty of examples where this split anticipation worked very well, with allopatric resident birds, which were described as separate subspecies before the split.

An additional important point. If McMadd's Jackdaws from his apartment were in Tampere, then the birds had a very variable looking mix of nominate monedula and soemmeringii characters. Intergradation is typical for many pairs of subspecies.

eBird is very good for watching photographs of birds, much better than IBC, for example. I have not used it much for entering my observations. I tried once. One problem was that with the mobile app it was not possible to enter anything about age, sex and plumage of birds. Another was that even with web page it was possible to use category "female-type", which is very much needed with ducks, some raptors and so on. I tried to check how eBird users managed with that, and noted that not many separated any plumages, even such very easily separable as adult male harriers, adult male mergansers and so on. (And of course, in the countries where I do most of my birdwatching there are their own country-specific databases and it is very natural to use them). One thing which should definitely be better in eBird is reporting identification mistakes - it is very easy to find them, and some are very obvious.

By the way - did somebody understand what really happened with this Lynx - Cornell thing? HBW Alive and IBC were obviously bought by Cornell. But what about HBW the book, the new identification guide series, and other Lynx projects, like HMW?
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 16:44   #67
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[quote=jalid;3828352]Golden-spectacled warbler is not a very good example, because before the split almost nobody had a clue about their variation and the taxons involved, and especially, because there are several sympatric species almost almost everywhere in the distribution area, so no specific identification can be based on locality.

It is easy to find better examples, like Eastern and Western Yellow Wagtail. But here we see another problem - subspecies are often separable, but very often no. Then there would have to be a "unidentified eastern subspecies" even before the split, and nobody could have anticipated the split that way. But of course, there are plenty of examples where this split anticipation worked very well, with allopatric resident birds, which were described as separate subspecies before the split.

An additional important point. If McMadd's Jackdaws from his apartment were in Tampere, then the birds had a very variable looking mix of nominate monedula and soemmeringii characters. Intergradation is typical for many pairs of subspecies.

eBird is very good for watching photographs of birds, much better than IBC, for example. I have not used it much for entering my observations. I tried once. One problem was that with the mobile app it was not possible to enter anything about age, sex and plumage of birds. Another was that even with web page it was possible to use category "female-type", which is very much needed with ducks, some raptors and so on. I tried to check how eBird users managed with that, and noted that not many separated any plumages, even such very easily separable as adult male harriers, adult male mergansers and so on. (And of course, in the countries where I do most of my birdwatching there are their own country-specific databases and it is very natural to use them). One thing which should definitely be better in eBird is reporting identification mistakes - it is very easy to find them, and some are very obvious.

By the way - did somebody understand what really happened with this Lynx - Cornell thing? HBW Alive and IBC were obviously bought by Cornell. But what about HBW the book, the new identification guide series, and other Lynx projects, like HMW?[/QUOTE]

I think Lynx have offloaded their least profitable branch, I think they're making a lot of money from books.
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 16:54   #68
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Golden-spectacled warbler is not a very good example, because before the split almost nobody had a clue about their variation and the taxons involved, and especially, because there are several sympatric species almost almost everywhere in the distribution area, so no specific identification can be based on locality.
This is a fair point, but what seems to have happened with Golden-spectacled Warbler is that the undifferentiated legacy records (as in "s.l.") remain, while observers are still (incorrectly) entering records of what are now considered different species (e.g. birds from Sichuan) under Golden-spectacled Warbler s.s.

I did write to ebird to draw attention to this issue, but never received a response.
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 18:27   #69
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I'm a bit surprised by the many negative comments here. Two providers of some of the very best services to birders decide to cooperate and the reponse is a collective moaning... really?

Of course not much is clear how the result will look like and what will be the conditions attached, but why should the integration of ebird and HBW alive into a single platform be necessarly a bad thing? Same for IBC and the Macaulay databases, not sure what is the problem.

HBW alive can certainly benefit from better IT implementation, ideally also in smartphone apps. And I'd certainly prefer to browse a single database for images and videos, rather than two.

Also all the complaints about "monetising" and "cashing in", I don't really get it. I've never paid a cent for ebird, and there is no advertisement on it, so they certainly do not have a history of too much "monetising". As for the HWB alive, the yearly subscription is simply fantastic value to me (I understand if those who bought the books think differently, but still), and I would not mind to pay somewhat more if the offered content improves.

I'm curious indeed how they will deal with the two taxonomies, and what the new partnership with Cornell means for the Lynx-Birdlife cooperation.
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 19:05   #70
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One thing which should definitely be better in eBird is reporting identification mistakes - it is very easy to find them, and some are very obvious.
If you see a photo in an eBird checklist which you think is an identification mistake, there's a "Report" link right under the photo.
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 21:00   #71
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What if it does not become as bad as you imagine?

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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 21:35   #72
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Completely agree Adam,
how's that IOC update coming?

I'm away at the moment with no access so not sure if you've finished.
Oh, that was done back at the end of January - I've had two more releases out since then.
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 21:40   #73
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If you see a photo in an eBird checklist which you think is an identification mistake, there's a "Report" link right under the photo.
Unfortunately, that only helps for sightings with photos. There's plenty of "that bird just isn't here at all" errors, like the aforementioned Golden-spectacled Warbler post-split, many of which have no photos or even explanatory text. Submitting feedback for these is possible but much more tedious.

In practice, a lot seems (from the outside) to depend on the quality (and availability) of able regional reviewers. The data is pretty good in the US, for example, and much weaker in other places (e.g., lots of errors in Laos last I checked).
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Old Sunday 17th March 2019, 22:56   #74
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I'm a bit surprised by the many negative comments here. Two providers of some of the very best services to birders decide to cooperate and the reponse is a collective moaning... really?

Of course not much is clear how the result will look like and what will be the conditions attached, but why should the integration of ebird and HBW alive into a single platform be necessarly a bad thing? Same for IBC and the Macaulay databases, not sure what is the problem.

HBW alive can certainly benefit from better IT implementation, ideally also in smartphone apps. And I'd certainly prefer to browse a single database for images and videos, rather than two.

Also all the complaints about "monetising" and "cashing in", I don't really get it. I've never paid a cent for ebird, and there is no advertisement on it, so they certainly do not have a history of too much "monetising". As for the HWB alive, the yearly subscription is simply fantastic value to me (I understand if those who bought the books think differently, but still), and I would not mind to pay somewhat more if the offered content improves.

I'm curious indeed how they will deal with the two taxonomies, and what the new partnership with Cornell means for the Lynx-Birdlife cooperation.
If BNA will be included in HBW Alive and the price will be the same as with the HBW Alive subscription alone I will be satisfied. If the price will increase I would think twice to renew my subscription.
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Old Monday 18th March 2019, 02:29   #75
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In practice, a lot seems (from the outside) to depend on the quality (and availability) of able regional reviewers. The data is pretty good in the US, for example, and much weaker in other places (e.g., lots of errors in Laos last I checked).
I can't argue with that; the more eBird data from a country, the more birders there are and the more reviewers.

But I'm unfamiliar with HBW and My Birding: was there review of sightings built into that system?
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