Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Discover the ZEISS Digital Nature Hub

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Norfolk Butterflies and Moths

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 60 votes, 5.00 average.
Old Monday 25th May 2009, 06:25   #51
Irene Boston
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Dersingham
Posts: 275
Fascinating Painted Lady spectacle - and these may be silly questions but here goes:

What triggers such numbers to migrate?
Or is it the fact that such numbers are around that has triggered the migration through lack of enough food where they originate from?
And, as someone may have mentioned already, when do they stop? How far north is this likely to go?
Or do they just disperse gradually as they go through 'new' areas?

Sorry for all the questions but I find it fascinating and I'd like to understand a bit more why it happens.

Thanks
Irene
Irene Boston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 25th May 2009, 06:43   #52
cjay
Forum Member

 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,689
This time it was the high rainfall in the Sahara desert that promoted the immigration. Normally it is the high numbers of breeding butterflies and there is not enough food so they migrate northwards, Normally Painted Ladies migrate late June but the high rainfall triggered this immigration. These butterflies will have come from South Africa at first
cjay is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 25th May 2009, 12:03   #53
HarassedDad
Norfolk County Butterfly Recorder

 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norwich, Norfolk
Posts: 1,013
I think it was more that high rainfall led to a blooming of the sahara - extra foodplants, allowing far more caterpillars to survive. Given that each adult female can lay 400 eggs - of which only 2 normally survive to breed - even a slight improvement in survival can produce huge booms in numbers. Last year hardly any PL's made it to Britain because of an unseasonal cold front in north africa which killed lots before they made it to Europe.
the adults that made it through the rains are pale and washed out and a bit tatty - they've been arriving in small numbers for the last month. There's a new generation, which bred after, now coming through - they are bright and fresh and flying fast.

They fly like mad until their food reserves start to drop, then they start settling down and feeding (and breeding). That's usually three days solid flying for the average adult - of course how far they get depends on where they started. Their offspring will be emerging in July, so there will be another boom then - depending on availability of foodplants (mainly thistles, burdock and nettles). Expect spiky black caterpillars in a month's time.

Co-incidently, the North American population is also undergoing a mass migration event, with large numbers moving north into california from mexico as we speak.
HarassedDad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 25th May 2009, 12:16   #54
Irene Boston
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Dersingham
Posts: 275
Many thanks Harassed Dad for taking the time to post that explanation - amazing and fascinating stuff.

One more question if I may (sorry!), do they migrate over the sea at fairly high levels or low down? If the latter, it must be quite a sight if you're on the south coast and see waves coming in off the sea.

Irene
Irene Boston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 25th May 2009, 20:50   #55
Tideliner
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: norfolk
Posts: 1,394
Between 8 and 9am I saw about 20 painted ladies , probably butterflies that roosted over night localy , but only a few straglers for the remainder of the day.
Tideliner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 25th May 2009, 21:18   #56
major wildlife
Registered Member

 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 274
Painted Lady

Four in my garden this afternoon on Cotoneaster flowers.(Kettlestone)

Major.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Painted-Lady.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	189.1 KB
ID:	198844  
__________________
www.majorwildlife.co.uk
major wildlife is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 26th May 2009, 21:12   #57
HarassedDad
Norfolk County Butterfly Recorder

 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norwich, Norfolk
Posts: 1,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irene Boston View Post
do they migrate over the sea at fairly high levels or low down? If the latter, it must be quite a sight if you're on the south coast and see waves coming in off the sea.
Irene
They usually come in at around head height - but even though there's a lot of them coming in they are rarely in masses - more of a steady stream of ones and twos. So you don't get to look out to sea and see a dark cloud of butterflies approaching - which is a shame.
HarassedDad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 28th May 2009, 19:11   #58
Lightthiscandle
David Bryant
 
Lightthiscandle's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 964
Painted Ladies

Got back from Berkshire on Wednesday: there were PLs absolutely all over the place! Cookham & Marlow were dripping with them! So I was pleased to see that they seem to have followed me up the A11: there's been a dozen or so in my garden today! (Blofield Heath)
Lightthiscandle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 28th May 2009, 20:26   #59
matt green
Norfolkman gone walkabout
 
matt green's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Stourbridge
Posts: 5,320
Even more Painted Ladies!!

Lost accurate count of them after double figures (including some in pairs) in my own sleepy corner of south Norfolk, nice to catch up with them on a late afternoon walk about the village since being out of the county for the last few days!

No idea what the moth is?

Matt
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	painted lady 007 (Custom).jpg
Views:	135
Size:	139.2 KB
ID:	199329  Click image for larger version

Name:	painted lady 001 (Custom).jpg
Views:	128
Size:	85.3 KB
ID:	199330  
matt green is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 29th May 2009, 08:32   #60
HarassedDad
Norfolk County Butterfly Recorder

 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norwich, Norfolk
Posts: 1,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt green View Post
No idea what the moth is?
Matt
Silver-ground carpet I think.

Swallowtails now reported from Strumpshaw, How Hill, and Upton Fen. Anyone seen them elsewhere?
HarassedDad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 29th May 2009, 08:37   #61
NoSpringChicken
Registered User
 
NoSpringChicken's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: East Norfolk
Posts: 26,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarassedDad View Post
Silver-ground carpet I think.

Swallowtails now reported from Strumpshaw, How Hill, and Upton Fen. Anyone seen them elsewhere?
I saw one on Monday at the Hickling NWT Nature Reserve. It was beside the path near the observation tower, settled on campion flowers.

Ron
NoSpringChicken is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2010 2011 2012 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 29th May 2009, 12:19   #62
Paul Woolnough
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk England
Posts: 706
I agree with silver-ground carpet as species
Looked up species in Norfolk Moths website to confirm so.
Have to admit it can be difficult to identify one carpet moth species from another.
Paul Woolnough is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 29th May 2009, 14:33   #63
Lightthiscandle
David Bryant
 
Lightthiscandle's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 964
Swallowtails

At least three at Strumpshaw today, including one, newly emerged, right by the Brick Hide. Lots of Painted Ladies, too!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Swallowtail 29 05 09 5.jpg
Views:	149
Size:	101.1 KB
ID:	199399  Click image for larger version

Name:	Painted Lady, Strumpshaw, May 29 2.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	86.9 KB
ID:	199400  

Last edited by Lightthiscandle : Friday 29th May 2009 at 14:56.
Lightthiscandle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 29th May 2009, 15:45   #64
Connor Rand
Norwich resident, Holme devotee
 
Connor Rand's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1,034
1983 Painted Ladies south through my garden 3:20pm-4:20pm - quite a spectacle
__________________
Connor
Connor Rand is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 29th May 2009, 21:58   #65
Tideliner
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: norfolk
Posts: 1,394
With the return of warm weather the painted lady migration has restarted. A slow trickle this morning increased to a steady flow mid afternoon and after 5.00 pm many settled down to feed and bask. An average of 4 per min at Swanton Novers , Norfolk between 2 and 4 pm Probably about 750 seen all day. Change in direction though with most heading north rather than the west movement on Sunday.
Tideliner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 30th May 2009, 18:12   #66
Tideliner
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: norfolk
Posts: 1,394
Painted ladies still trickling through with 53 at Swanton Novers to day. While most are still headding north many seem to flying in almost any direction.
Tideliner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 30th May 2009, 22:22   #67
HarassedDad
Norfolk County Butterfly Recorder

 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norwich, Norfolk
Posts: 1,013
Well, I checked along the New Cut from St Olaves to opposite Reedham - and the painted ladies definately weren't moving through there - only 5 seen all afternoon. Lots of common blues however, and my first Large Skipper of the year. (Also my first Black-tailed skimmers.)
HarassedDad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 31st May 2009, 15:58   #68
CANARY NICK
NORFOLK
 
CANARY NICK's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NORWICH
Posts: 40
Swallowtails

Have just got back from Hickling NWT reserve had 5 swallowtails
near the observation hut
CANARY NICK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 31st May 2009, 18:02   #69
Birding Bob
Robert Williamson
 
Birding Bob's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kings Lynn
Posts: 636
Narbrough Train Line

Had a walk around the reserve with the camera this afternoon. The first insect i saw was a Cryptocephalus hypochaeridis. A few Common Blue were about with a few Painted Ladies, I also saw a single Red Admiral. Later I saw two Skippers flying pass i didn't get a good view off them but they were brown thats all i can say. I also saw these two cantharis rustica mating and a Hornet flew passed.

Photos-
1) cantharis rustica
2,3,4) Common Blue?
5) Cryptocephalus hypochaeridis
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	cantharis rustica.jpg
Views:	117
Size:	87.6 KB
ID:	199846  Click image for larger version

Name:	Common Blue.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	88.1 KB
ID:	199847  Click image for larger version

Name:	Common Blue002.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	84.2 KB
ID:	199848  Click image for larger version

Name:	Common Blue003.jpg
Views:	133
Size:	85.4 KB
ID:	199849  Click image for larger version

Name:	Cryptocephalus hypochaeridis.jpg
Views:	115
Size:	74.3 KB
ID:	199850  

Birding Bob is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 31st May 2009, 18:04   #70
Birding Bob
Robert Williamson
 
Birding Bob's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kings Lynn
Posts: 636
Narbrough Train Line

I also saw these but i haven't a clue what they are but i now two of them are moths.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Narbourgh train line 001.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	68.5 KB
ID:	199852  Click image for larger version

Name:	Narbourgh train line 010.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	124.7 KB
ID:	199853  Click image for larger version

Name:	Narbourgh train line 011.jpg
Views:	143
Size:	114.9 KB
ID:	199855  
Birding Bob is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 31st May 2009, 18:05   #71
Tideliner
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: norfolk
Posts: 1,394
Interesting you had a large skipper today Harrassed Dad. I was 90% sure i saw one at Swanton Novers on Friday , but it was only a quick glimpse so did not record it. Thats about 2 weeks early for my area.
Tideliner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 31st May 2009, 19:46   #72
BehramiArmy
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Essex
Posts: 5
6 swallowtails, 100 painted ladies, 10 speckled wood, 5 orange tips, 10 peacocks etcetera strumpshaw fen on friday
BehramiArmy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 31st May 2009, 20:10   #73
Paul Woolnough
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk England
Posts: 706
Nine grizzled skippers but no dingies at Foulden Common yesterday pm
Only one swallowtail at Upton Fen this am (31 May)
(Full lists on recording form Harrassed Dad)
Paul Woolnough is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 1st June 2009, 15:11   #74
iainhawk
Registered User
 
iainhawk's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 107
Norwich moth ID

Hi all.

Just starting running a moth trap and caught the moth with photos attached this morning. I would appreciate any thoughts on the ID. it was 26mm long and has the distinctive markings on the wing- one very clear '8' shaped and another just before it that is pale and worn. The leg colour is interesting- with a cream foreleg and darker hind legs going to paler tips.

it was caught with a portable 15w actinic skinner trap

iainhawk
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF3600-1.JPG
Views:	145
Size:	138.4 KB
ID:	200064  Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF3656-1.JPG
Views:	138
Size:	102.7 KB
ID:	200065  
iainhawk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 1st June 2009, 17:07   #75
HarassedDad
Norfolk County Butterfly Recorder

 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norwich, Norfolk
Posts: 1,013
Robert, the green beetle is Oedemera nobilis, the first moth is a Latticed Heath
For your second, and for Iainhawk's I refer you to the Moth recorder at www.norfolkmoths.co.uk
(Since I'm rubbish at these little brown jobs.)
HarassedDad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
British Butterflies and Moths by Furneaux JoanT Butterflies and Moths 0 Wednesday 31st December 2008 15:35
Some nice butterflies & moths - help with ID please UsambiroBarbet Butterflies and Moths ID 0 Wednesday 29th October 2008 07:54
What Butterflies and Moths do you get? birdman Butterflies and Moths 8 Monday 12th June 2006 07:02
Andalucian Moths and Butterflies Brian Stone Butterflies and Moths 9 Friday 27th May 2005 06:20
Butterflies & Moths N.Grant Butterflies and Moths 3 Tuesday 10th May 2005 18:52



Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.20115209 seconds with 38 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 17:11.