Most overlooked rarities in Europe? (1 Viewer)

dwatsonbirder said:

My thoughts exactly. Cryptically plumaged species may be one thing, but with a bit of experience with similar species and decent photos, they can usually be identified -.

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Not using the definition I was referring to above - see link! - ‘cryptic’ meaning can only be separated by DNA or vocals. ( I also made the point actually above that species are far more likely to be detected on contained/open island habitats than the vast expanse of mainland Europe )

Deb Burhinus said:

Not using the definition I was referring to above - see link! - ‘cryptic’ meaning can only be separated by DNA or vocals.

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Are there any in Europe, or potential suspected? The link doesn't mention any examples.

dantheman said:

Are there any in Europe, or potential suspected? The link doesn't mention any examples.

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It wasn’t supposed to - just illustrating the use of the ‘cryptic’ and I was referring in particular to races and sub-species such as the Yellow Wagtail complex, Canada Geese, Buteos - all examples of where vagrant races to Europe might go under the radar because of difficulty of separating them based on plumage, from European races - not impossible in many cases often based on structure and vocals but this requires a level of experience that might lead to under-reporting/reliable records. However, some simply defy separation on any level other than DNA or vocals.

Deb Burhinus said:

It wasn’t supposed to - just illustrating the use of the ‘cryptic’

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Didn't say it was. Just wondering what could be potential cryptic species that could conceivably occur in Europe - various Eastern warblers perhaps?

EDIT: see we crossposted. General cases = cool. Was under the impression that the 'true cryptic species' were tropical/subtropical in the main.

Deb Burhinus said:

Not using the definition I was referring to above - see link! - ‘cryptic’ meaning can only be separated by DNA or vocals. ( I also made the point actually above that species are far more likely to be detected on contained/open island habitats than the vast expanse of mainland Europe )

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Sorry Deb, I must admit I was addressing the example of species like double crested cormorant, taiga flycatcher and brown shrike further up thread as "cryptic", rather than relating to the article you posted. Some interesting information there, particularly the example of elephants. It poses the question of where the line is drawn in terms of speciation, and which of the sub-species that are present now are on their way to being new species in the future; as an aside, I foresee that there will be a number of new species in NW Africa in the near future. Some of the plumage variation, calls, habitat preferences and behaviours are far removed from what we are familiar with in Europe; Crested lark, Magpie, Greater spotted woodpecker and Coal tit to name a few.
Apologies for the digression!

dwatsonbirder said:

Sorry Deb, I must admit I was addressing the example of species like double crested cormorant and brown shrike further up thread as "cryptic", rather than relating to the article you posted.

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No worries Dan - it is a really interesting topic though and one that as a birder keen on a high bar of safe identification of species in the field has always intrigued me especially when it comes to separating Asian races of European species or other vagrant Asian species to Europe (which for all intents and purposes are practically identical to look at). Such vagrants could easily be overlooked. (Not not identifiable just overlooked). Anyway, I’ll bow out now, it feels for some reason my posts are just repeatedly being met with push back so I will leave it to the ‘more experienced men’ to carry on :-O

dwatsonbirder said:

My thoughts exactly. Cryptically plumaged species may be one thing, but with a bit of experience with similar species and decent photos, they can usually be identified - think of the number of species that fall into the "subsequently identified from photos" category since the digital camera was introduced.
By comparison (in a UK context anyways) the number of several secretive species has a bias towards particular areas, likely as a result of two factors 1) relative lack of habitat and 2) observer coverage.
If you look at records of Pechora Pipit/PG tips/Lancy, these species all occur (just about) annually on Shetland, yet remain extremely rare on the mainland. They doubtless occur (the dutch ones are presumably at large in Suffolk/Norfolk!) but because of the birds behaviour and the density of vegetation go unnoticed every year (probably).

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I think you've nut-shelled it Dan....

American Oystercatcher might be one. Who looks twice at oystercatchers?

I think some Pacific gulls are almost certain to be overloooked: Slaty-backed, Western, Glaucous-winged, American Herring or California. Especially their immature plumages (except American Herring).

Actually, many years ago I saw a strange adult black-backed gull in Poland. It resembled LBBG, but had very compact shape and bright pink legs. For GBBG it was clearly too small, round headed with thin bill. It took off before friend decided to go to the car for a camera. At that time nobody thought than anything else than two black-backed gulls could be an alternative. Now I think we could have overlooked a Slaty-backed Gull...

dantheman said:

Didn't say it was. Just wondering what could be potential cryptic species that could conceivably occur in Europe - various Eastern warblers perhaps?

EDIT: see we crossposted. General cases = cool. Was under the impression that the 'true cryptic species' were tropical/subtropical in the main.

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Crossbills - 57 call types, is each one a cryptic species???

Farnboro John said:

Dunno, it hasn't been found yet! 3

John

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Was just thinking, there's not been any UK records of Ostrich, might they be overlooked? 8-P

Nutcracker said:

Crossbills - 57 call types, is each one a cryptic species???




Was just thinking, there's not been any UK records of Ostrich, might they be overlooked? 8-P

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It may be a birding legend but I remember talk of a tideline corpse Ostrich on Scilly back in the mists of time, that was allegedly traced to a zoo-destined bird that died en voyage and was heaved over the side. So Cat E!

John

I remember about 40 years ago going to Flamborough to see some rarity and got back to the car park when someone said there's a Siberian race Stonechat yonder...

Didn't even bother going for a sub-species. We had already walked a long way and I was probably whinging. I would kill for one now...

There seems to be to some confusion in this thread. Being overlooked and not being found are two completely different things.

My other was whilst looking for some rare Wheatear north of Long Nab - which we didn't see but I saw was I thought was a Fuscus gull. I pointed it out to a more experienced who said don't really bother looking for these...

Again how times have changed.

And a reference that knowledge, books, photos have led to more sub-species and some difficult species being found.

In the olden days you would only go through a roof of thousand Gulls if there was nothing interesting in the harbour. Nowadays you look for the roof with the gulls.

rosbifs said:

In the olden days you would only go through a roof of thousand Gulls if there was nothing interesting in the harbour. Nowadays you look for the roof with the gulls.

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.....yeah gotabe roofless there.

Gladiator96 said:

There seems to be to some confusion in this thread. Being overlooked and not being found are two completely different things.

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Ignoring the red herring of the species mentioned upthread that would have been overlooked in the past, and the lurkers and skulkers, for overlooked we have -

Groups -
Asian Leaf-Warblers
Shearwaters and petrels
Pacific Gulls
Full 'Crypto' species (eg Crossbills - but would anyone care? )
Snipe species (W and East -eg Wilson's, Pin-tailed)
Flycatchers - eg Taiga, Tyrrhenian (within Europe)
Rails - African/Asian sp? (or are they just skulkers??)
(Over-looked subspecies in general, some of which could be afforded full species in the future, whereupon they would potentially engender a lot more interest eg Yellow Wagtails etc)

Other specifics (some have already occurred/on the radar, others less so) -

Snowy Egret
Masked Booby (imm.)
Double-crested Cormorant
N American 'species pairs' - varying distinguishability eg Common Merganser
Paddyfield Pipit
Eastern Black-eared Kite
American Oystercatcher
Buff-bellied Pipit japonicus
Tennessee Warbler

'Genuine' vagrants in amongst plastics eg wildfowl, such as Wood Duck.

Are we just talking Europe, or widening it out to WP? Israel/Middle East have the potential to add a lot more species that could be overlooked, although in the sense that any vagrants are under-recorded rather than species sitting out obviously to be found if anyone was scrutinising. NW African species as mentioned could conceivably make it to mainland Europe, or are they to go on the list?)

That mostly correct/about it so far?

I'd kinda add sparrows, starlings, swifts, swallows and martins to the pot, possibly - all fairly plain and often in groups but ignored to a degree.

Birds have turned up but probably more potential, both in the UK, and further afield in Europe?

eg

Spanish Sparrow - UK/N and C Europe
Spotless Starling - UK/ N Europe
Pallid Swift - spring UK
Asian/African swallow species - S Europe,
Bank Swallow, Cave Swallow (N America sp. pairs) - etc Europe
Asian House Martin - Europe

By the way, are we talking overlooked rarities within Europe, or to Europe?

Both are interesting imo - birds rare in one country eg UK such as female Spanish Sparrow obviously not overlooked in their home range.


A couple more specific examples that been half aware of-

Oriental Skylark
Golden-crowned Kinglet

The latter probably and generally unlikely to make it over here, but if one did ...

dantheman said:

...
Golden-crowned Kinglet

The latter probably and generally unlikely to make it over here, but if one did ...

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Think that'd be like "Ah, a Firecrest, nice! ... Hang on, looks a bit odd, no bronze shoulder ... hmmm, wonder if it could be a Firecrect x Goldcrest hybrid??"

dantheman said:

eg UK such as female Spanish Sparrow obviously not overlooked in their home range.

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Probably not even looked at in their territory....

So
1. Overlooked to me is something that is missed because it blends in with the crowd or through lack of knowledge...
A strange Pipit race or juv gull in a flock of thousands. How times have we found something that is 'different' from the rest of the flock but we can't put our finger on it? Pre-digital cameras, pre-colour field guides - Collins? Not much chance. Already had the Slaty Gull reference.

Can you remember the difficulty pre cd's in winding through an old tape recorder to try and pinpoint a call?

Another bird not, knowingly, seen by me would be Pacific Diver (although 99.9999999% sure haven't). How many would have been overlooked over time - considering it has got to have been fairly regular west coast bird after big storms? Once you find one you find more - 50 years ago who would be looking for one?

Nowadays you get a digital camera snap, you tape a bird out with your mobile phone, within 15 minutes other birders are on site to verify something. In the 'olden' days you see a bird its gone and then going home and phoning someone to say you might have seen something but it was quick so you're not sure and you might have or not got a snap which you will wait for the end of the film before processing

Once you've heard a Yellow Browed or such like you find more and more...

2. Not found is not found because of its habits or habitat.
Nocturnal birds, birds in the middle of reeds, buried in Woodland or in very loosely watched areas...
One example is the Aquatic Warbler in South West France - 10 or so records over the years then a change in ringing method produced 40 birds in two weeks one August. Something about the nets being placed parallel to the ditches about a metre away and closer to the ground which completely changed the capture rate.

Another would be Wallcreeper - when we changed our prospection period, to earlier, and area to lower we immediately started finding nests - we have a Swiss birder to thank for a Wallcreeper paper he did on his local birds. And finally the Eagle Owls - historically birders were looking too high. An adjustment bought immediate results - there is an interesting paper on the subject I might dig out...