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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

What do FZ18 users think of there Camera? (1 Viewer)

To be fair the FZ18 is never going to be quite as good as a top price dSLR plus top quality 500mm zoom lens. But it doesn't have the weight or price tag of that sort of outfit. As you will see from numerous posts in this and other FZ18 related threads, it is capable of excellent pictures. Take lots of pictures; read the instruction booklet carefully, it's a rather good one as these things go; look at the thoughts on settings for the FZ18 in this forum, and maybe consider a high quality teleconverter, as many on the forum are using successfully. The advantage of the teleconverter is that it potentially reduces the amount of cropping you need, which otherwise is inevitably going to diminish picture detail.
 
Given the distance, I am reasonably satisfied, but I also feel there is a little less than optimal feather definition. Are there some settings I need to change?

File tells me that the image was taken using:
1/400 f/4.2, Aperture priority
Iso 100 (automatically chosen, camera set at iso-max 400)
Exposure bias 0
focal length 82.8 (maximum, I think -- there was no converter)
Contrast, saturation, sharpness: all standard
I cannot find noise reduction in the data, should be set at -2 (that is where I remember setting it, and camera still reports that setting)

Thanks for any insight
Niels

Hi Niels,

Definitely a nice shot with nice composition. My impression/guess though is that it is slightly out of focus or perhaps slightly blurred by movement (though I agree the photo itself does not provide definitive evidence of either). I do not know of anything you could have done to improve things given your settings; just one of those hit or miss things with this camera that I hope can be avoided by taking lots of photos of the same subject.

Warblers are definitely one of the most challenging subjects I have found though. I am attaching one of the more humorous results of a recent attempt in Florida under low light conditions-- unfortunately the only shot I got of the bird. I am also attaching a couple of shots of other birds that turned out better (these have been sharpened in PhotoFiltre and I used the TCON 17 handheld with all).

Looks better than most of mine I've taken with the camera (see my gallery) I've only started using the other setting other than iA function. I've been trying P but have no clue what I'm doing when I change any of the settings

-Matt

Hi Matt,

As Niels suggested, getting a solid grounding in the fundamentals of photography would be helpful. But for bird photography, I have found that aperture mode with the aperture set to its widest point (4.2 on this camera at maximum zoom), works best for most situations. That appears to be what Niels is using as well.

Best,
Jim
 

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Jim,
thanks for your comments! I was wondering if lowering in-camera sharpening would have been advantageous.

I think that one of the plusses in a photo like your photo of the moorhen is that you have the bird filling a larger part of the frame. Getting closer is almost always a good thing in bird photography! If I had had the time, I probably should have fiddled with the 5mp EZ (extended zoom) setting, but I was worried the bird migth fly.

Pure speculation: the camera seems to be correcting for lens aberrations, could that be one of the reasons for lack of feather detail when zooming maximally and not that close to the bird?

Hi Matt,

As Niels suggested, getting a solid grounding in the fundamentals of photography would be helpful. But for bird photography, I have found that aperture mode with the aperture set to its widest point (4.2 on this camera at maximum zoom), works best for most situations. That appears to be what Niels is using as well.

Best,
Jim

It is correct that I have had the habit of using aperture priority with wide open aperture (lowest available number) since I was using a fully manual film SLR. The biggest drawback of really long lenses is that you shake or birds move, and getting the shortest possible shutter time outweighs the disadvantage of low depth of field in my mind. I also for the same reason use the isomax 400 setting because again, I most often can live with the grain if the light is low and the camera actually chooses the higher setting. I have used reduced noise reduction, and will use Noiseware to treat the image in the PC if necessary. There is not much you can do with an image of a shaking bird after the shot has been taken!

I also am in the habit of taking a lot of shots of the same bird, probably more than 20 of this one. However, it was flitting around quite a lot, and hidden behind leaves on most of them.

I currently have the antishake set at option 2, but I don't know if it makes much difference to use option 1?

Niels
 
[EDIT: Posting at the same time as Neils post above].

I have had the FZ18 for about three month now, and have a question on quality. The attachment is full size, untreated crop of a picture which can alsoo be seen at http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/212415/ppuser/7427 in a version that has been sharpened etc.

Given the distance, I am reasonably satisfied, but I also feel there is a little less than optimal feather definition. Are there some settings I need to change?

I have come up with some more helpful ideas. First, do you have image stabilization set to mode 2? That is supposed to be best for reducing camera shake. Second, you might want to double check to make sure you have image quality at the highest setting. I found that somehow mine got changed to a lower setting at one point. Finally, I just discovered some ways to speed the autofocus, which should be helpful for fast-moving birds or birds in flight:
(i) I enabled "continuous autofocus". (See page 82 of the manual). I am not sure exactly what this does, but the manual says it should increase focusing speed, though it uses a bit more battery power.
(ii)There is also a high-speed one area focusing mode (see page 79 of the manual). This is supposed to increase focusing speed also.

I have not tried it yet, but I also wonder whether the more precise spot focusing mode (see page 79) might be best for birds.

Best,
Jim
 
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[EDIT: Posting at the same time as Neils post above].



I have come up with some more helpful ideas. First, do you have image stabilization set to mode 2? That is supposed to be best for reducing camera shake. Second, you might want to double check to make sure you have image quality at the highest setting. I found that somehow mine got changed to a lower setting at one point. Finally, I just discovered some ways to speed the autofocus, which should be helpful for fast-moving birds or birds in flight:
(i) I enabled "continuous autofocus". (See page 82 of the manual). I am not sure exactly what this does, but the manual says it should increase focusing speed, though it uses a bit more battery power.
(ii)There is also a high-speed one area focusing mode (see page 79 of the manual). This is supposed to increase focusing speed also.

I have not tried it yet, but I also wonder whether the more precise spot focusing mode (see page 79) might be best for birds.

Best,
Jim

Thanks Jim,
it is great that you take the time to go into the little details. Yes, IS at 2, and I am taking the manuals word for it, that this should give better results.

I am using the spot-focusing, and generally feel it helps me get onto the bird as opposed to a nearby branch or whatever my previous camera always used to think was better to focus on than the bird itself ;) I have just tested the H-center focus, and at least in my "home office" it did not seem to make a lot of difference.

As a result of this discussion, I just discovered how to move the spot for AF around the area, for better composition. :t:

I have not tried continous autofocus. It is my impression that it works by you being close to the right focus when you do the half-press, then it freezes focus. If you take pictures in burst, it does not seem to be changing focus between shots, not even in continous (slower) burst mode (just checked the manual).

I believe the images were saved with the best quality available; image size varies between about 2 and 3.5 MB.

Thanks again
Niels
 
Jim and Niels,

I actually used the "A" function today, with isomax at 400 like niels uses but i forget the other settings and got this picture of a house finch which isn't that good but I'm happy with it since its better.

As for the background in photography, I found a book and Barnes & Noble on nature photography which I will look into.

I will also read the manual (I probably should have already ;)) but I will look into both of your's advice

-Matt

P.S. looks a little blurry though.
 

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FZ18 versatility

With the recent posts about the quality and resolution of FZ18 pictures at full zoom, I thought it might be quite nice to show a set of three pictures illustrating it's versatility for nature photography. The picture of the male gadwall duck was taken from a hide at full zoom with the bird about 30ft away. Light was good enabling 1/500th sec at F5.0. The original picture was cropped by about 25% and had a small amount of sharpening applied in Photoshop. The moth was taken at the opposite end of the zoom range in light shade in macro mode 1/80th sec at F2.8. Cropping and sharpening as before. Finally the siskin was a dot in tree canopy to the naked eye with sun shining through the leaves, it was moving around as well. Full zoom 1/160th sec. F4.2, original picture cropped about 60% and sharpened as before. I think these picture on only my second serious outing away from my back garden with the camera illustrate why I'm pretty happy with it overall. The dSLR kit I would have needed to lug around to get superior pictures of these three subjects is a pretty convincing arguement to someone with a real back problem. :t:
 

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Jim and Niels,

I actually used the "A" function today, with isomax at 400 like niels uses but i forget the other settings and got this picture of a house finch which isn't that good but I'm happy with it since its better.

P.S. looks a little blurry though.

Hi Matt,

Looking at the image properties for your House Finch photo, I am not sure you understood the strategy Neils and I employ when using aperture priority. The image properties indicate the photo was taken at 1/60th of a second; that is a slow shutter speed likely to result in blur from camera shake or movement of the subject. Moreover, the aperture was set at f5.6. Even at maximum zoom, the aperture can be set open wider -- to f4.2. At this wider aperture, the camera will let in more light and allow a faster shutter speed, and that will decrease the likelihood of blur. When using aperture priority for bird photography, you generally want to set the aperture as wide as possible (which means the lowest number possible). You can toggle it using the joystick.

Best,
Jim

With the recent posts about the quality and resolution of FZ18 pictures at full zoom, I thought it might be quite nice to show a set of three pictures illustrating it's versatility for nature photography. The picture of the male gadwall duck was taken from a hide at full zoom with the bird about 30ft away. Light was good enabling 1/500th sec at F5.0. The original picture was cropped by about 25% and had a small amount of sharpening applied in Photoshop. The moth was taken at the opposite end of the zoom range in light shade in macro mode 1/80th sec at F2.8. Cropping and sharpening as before. Finally the siskin was a dot in tree canopy to the naked eye with sun shining through the leaves, it was moving around as well. Full zoom 1/160th sec. F4.2, original picture cropped about 60% and sharpened as before. I think these picture on only my second serious outing away from my back garden with the camera illustrate why I'm pretty happy with it overall. The dSLR kit I would have needed to lug around to get superior pictures of these three subjects is a pretty convincing arguement to someone with a real back problem. :t:

Nice photos indeed Dave. I am especially impressed with the Siskin shot given the relatively slow shutter speed.

Cheers,
Jim
 
Dave, I agree with nice photos indeed! My sole purpose with my post was to maybe improve my images above and beyond what I have achieved so far.

I also completely agree that the weight and bulk of a SLR kit is prohibitive: I used to have a film SLR setup and my telescope, and I found myself bringing either one or the other, but never both, if I left the car with more than 10 meters. Now with my FZ18, I routinely bring both (and I am still thinking about how to bring another camera for digiscoping ;) ).

Niels
 
My convertor and adapter arrived today!! I have had a quick go of seeing the differences in the quality of the photographs by practising in my garden and so far I am really impressed with them!!!

I could do with a bit of help though with the best settings to use for the convertor, which is the best setting to have on for the convertor in the main menu? Should it be none, T or C? Also which setting have people found is the best for taking 'moving' bird photographs?

With the recent posts about the quality and resolution of FZ18 pictures at full zoom, I thought it might be quite nice to show a set of three pictures illustrating it's versatility for nature photography.

It has been really beneficial in seeing your photographs Dave, it just shows that the FZ18 is a very adaptable camera!! When you say that you used full zoom was this full digital or optical zoom?

Sorry for all the questions but I really want to get the most out of my new toy!!!o:)
 
Hi Matt,

Looking at the image properties for your House Finch photo, I am not sure you understood the strategy Neils and I employ when using aperture priority. The image properties indicate the photo was taken at 1/60th of a second; that is a slow shutter speed likely to result in blur from camera shake or movement of the subject. Moreover, the aperture was set at f5.6. Even at maximum zoom, the aperture can be set open wider -- to f4.2. At this wider aperture, the camera will let in more light and allow a faster shutter speed, and that will decrease the likelihood of blur. When using aperture priority for bird photography, you generally want to set the aperture as wide as possible (which means the lowest number possible). You can toggle it using the joystick.

Best,
Jim

I think you're right in my confusing Jim, I don't really understand the whole "F and then some number thing"

Sorry if I'm sounding stupid or being a bother!!

-Matt
 
I think you're right in my confusing Jim, I don't really understand the whole "F and then some number thing"

Sorry if I'm sounding stupid or being a bother!!

-Matt

Well, as was discussed above, you need to get a grounding in the fundamentals of photography.

Best,
Jim
 
When I say full zoom Emma, I mean full 8 megapixel optical zoom. I haven't used digital zoom and I wouldn't plan to. Several contributors have used the 5 and 3 megapixel 'extra' optical zooms to good effect, but I haven't tried those. I have the Pemaraal adaptor and step rings to fit both the old Olympus B300 X1.7 converter that I used in the past with an earlier digital camera, and the Nikon TC-15ED X1.5 converter that I got from Ebay. I haven't tried them in anger yet. The Nikon adaptor feels like it might be better balanced for hand held shots, It's certainly lighter. I have no experience with the Olympus T-CON 17, which is the more recent incarnation of the B300, but lots of people here use it to good effect. Don't forget to tell the camera you are using a teleconverter, see page 89 in the manual.;)
 
I think you're right in my confusing Jim, I don't really understand the whole "F and then some number thing"

-Matt

OK, let us try to make a little inroads:

Shutter speed is given as 1/60, 1/125, or what ever number, and means the fraction of a second that your camera is collecting information.

For the purpose of understanding, I will ask you to imagine something that is actually not true, but anyway: look at the F-number as it is was missing the 1/ part of the fraction, so you only saw the number in the denominator. A larger F number therefore means less light. F8 gives you half the light of f4. With fast moving birds, you want the maximum light and therefore the smallest number possible in F-number. Look in your manual under A (aperture priority) to see how to set the F-number, set it to the smallest possible, and leave it there when you do bird photography.

Hope this helps
Niels
 
OK, let us try to make a little inroads:

Shutter speed is given as 1/60, 1/125, or what ever number, and means the fraction of a second that your camera is collecting information.

For the purpose of understanding, I will ask you to imagine something that is actually not true, but anyway: look at the F-number as it is was missing the 1/ part of the fraction, so you only saw the number in the denominator. A larger F number therefore means less light. F8 gives you half the light of f4. With fast moving birds, you want the maximum light and therefore the smallest number possible in F-number. Look in your manual under A (aperture priority) to see how to set the F-number, set it to the smallest possible, and leave it there when you do bird photography.

Hope this helps
Niels

Thanks Niels,

I'm going out to try it at our feeders before the sun sets!

EDIT: Here I think these are better, set at F4.0 with EV +1/3, I think they are better except for the blinding bright spot in the corner! My last post on here I promise!

Thanks,
Matt
 

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... Don't forget to tell the camera you are using a teleconverter, see page 89 in the manual.;)

I have mentioned this in thread I started about TCON-17 (http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=120057) and it was mentioned by Jim that he has not used the converter setting on the camera. I have now got a second-hand TCON-17 and have also found that I get good images without altering the setting at all (check Cormorant pics on my gallery).

Also which setting have people found is the best for taking 'moving' bird photographs?

I have found that using the Sport - Outdoor setting can get good results (if you're quick enough to keep the bird in the viewfinder)... including managing a Swift and Barn Swallows being fed...

Lisa
 

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I have mentioned this in thread I started about TCON-17 (http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=120057) and it was mentioned by Jim that he has not used the converter setting on the camera. I have now got a second-hand TCON-17 and have also found that I get good images without altering the setting at all (check Cormorant pics on my gallery).



I have found that using the Sport - Outdoor setting can get good results (if you're quick enough to keep the bird in the viewfinder)... including managing a Swift and Barn Swallows being fed...

Lisa

That is worth considering. What kind of Iso does the camera choose using that setting?

thanks
Niels
 
That is worth considering. What kind of Iso does the camera choose using that setting?

The Swift settings were... ISO 100, exposure time 1/1300 sec., f/8

...and the Barn Swallow settings were... ISO 100, exposure time 1/100 sec., f/3.6.

The camera was set to Sports - Outdoor setting for both and it selected these settinngs automatically.

After reading what Jim has said about Aperture Priority for birding photography, I'll have a go using that this weekend... I've found with the evenings getter darker earlier now, I am getting blur with images due to poor light, and the flash doesn't seem to be of much use in these conditions, so hopefully this may compensate.

Lisa
 
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