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Can you buy a good roof prism for $200.00 or are you jerking our diopter Frank? (4 Viewers)

Nikon's 'no fault' USA warranty really is beyond our wildest dreams here in little old England. To think that Dennis bought a used EDG I for $750, sent it to Nikon for 'repair' of a small scratch on one ocular lens and, in return for a nominal fee of $10, was rewarded with a new EDG II worth c.$2,000. Incredible! On that basis, if you live in America you need never buy a new Nikon binocular because you just send in your present bin and they'll replace it with a new one. Flamin' hell, that's not a warranty, it's a ticket to Paradise! Why are Americans given such preferential treatment? If I seem bitter it's because I am...
 
Nikon's 'no fault' USA warranty really is beyond our wildest dreams here in little old England. To think that Dennis bought a used EDG I for $750, sent it to Nikon for 'repair' of a small scratch on one ocular lens and, in return for a nominal fee of $10, was rewarded with a new EDG II worth c.$2,000. Incredible! On that basis, if you live in America you need never buy a new Nikon binocular because you just send in your present bin and they'll replace it with a new one. Flamin' hell, that's not a warranty, it's a ticket to Paradise! Why are Americans given such preferential treatment? If I seem bitter it's because I am...

At least you can still buy the Nikon EII series which Nikon doesn't want to sell in the US. And despite Opticron supposedly having three dealers here in the US I had to buy on your side of the "pond" to obtain an Opticron 8x32 SR GA. I did find the people at Clifton Camera nice to deal with and discovered another future source any other Nikon E IIs I might purchase.

I actually find Nikon's eagerness to replace any faulty EDG I with the newer version sort of scary. My 7x42 EDG I is my favorite roof and would be loathe to send it in for any repair for fear they would simply replace it with the newer closed bridge version.

Steve
 
Nikon's 'no fault' USA warranty really is beyond our wildest dreams here in little old England. To think that Dennis bought a used EDG I for $750, sent it to Nikon for 'repair' of a small scratch on one ocular lens and, in return for a nominal fee of $10, was rewarded with a new EDG II worth c.$2,000. Incredible! On that basis, if you live in America you need never buy a new Nikon binocular because you just send in your present bin and they'll replace it with a new one. Flamin' hell, that's not a warranty, it's a ticket to Paradise! Why are Americans given such preferential treatment? If I seem bitter it's because I am...


The EDG I was only sold in North America. And, I will stand corrected on this if I am wrong; I believe that at the time it was introduced that North America was the only place that got an EDG of any kind. I don't believe Europe or the rest of the world got the EDG until the 2nd version was made.

This might explain why Nikon replaces the old model EDG so readily here in the USA.

I do know some people who have had problems with some of Nikon's inexpensive models and have sent them in for repairs and received a new one in return. I have seen the same thing happen with Bushnell so I don't think this exchanging rather than fixing is unusual. At least in the inexpensive models.

Bob
 
At least you can still buy the Nikon EII series which Nikon doesn't want to sell in the US. And despite Opticron supposedly having three dealers here in the US I had to buy on your side of the "pond" to obtain an Opticron 8x32 SR GA. I did find the people at Clifton Camera nice to deal with and discovered another future source any other Nikon E IIs I might purchase.

I actually find Nikon's eagerness to replace any faulty EDG I with the newer version sort of scary. My 7x42 EDG I is my favorite roof and would be loathe to send it in for any repair for fear they would simply replace it with the newer closed bridge version.

Steve

I liked the 8x32 EDG I too but I was surprised with the EDG II they sent me. I didn't think I would like it as well but I do. They made alot of improvements on it. The armouring is alot nicer, the diopter works better, the eyecups stay on better and the big thing is how the balance is improved. The EDG I wasn't quite balanced but I think they spent some time on the EDG II getting the balance right and it really makes a big difference. You don't feel the weight as much. You know it's magnesium so it's going to be heavier than the Zeiss FL but it is longer and better balanced. I don't think Nikon has ANY EDG I's around or parts for them so you break yours and you get the EDG II. I think they want to get rid of all the EDG I's. You would be surprised how well the EDG II fits your hands though. You would like them so don't worry if it breaks you would be satisfied with the II.
 
Nikon's 'no fault' USA warranty really is beyond our wildest dreams here in little old England. To think that Dennis bought a used EDG I for $750, sent it to Nikon for 'repair' of a small scratch on one ocular lens and, in return for a nominal fee of $10, was rewarded with a new EDG II worth c.$2,000. Incredible! On that basis, if you live in America you need never buy a new Nikon binocular because you just send in your present bin and they'll replace it with a new one. Flamin' hell, that's not a warranty, it's a ticket to Paradise! Why are Americans given such preferential treatment? If I seem bitter it's because I am...

And don't forget, the streets here are paved with gold! Well, Wall Street anyway. :)

It's not because we have more people. Western Europe has about 100 million more people than the US.

Perhaps it's because a greater portion of our population buys optics or a greater portion buys more than one bin. We got guys like Frank who have a one-a-day habit. :)

There are some Euro birders on BF who have "collections" of bins. However, members of BF bin forums are probably not representative of the birding population as a whole on either side of the pond. Most birders I know only own one or two bins, at most. Some also own a spotting scope.

I would take a gander that in the Great State of Pennsylvania, there are more hunters than birders, and that most have binoculars. Mostly cheap bins, Bushnells, Nikon Trailblazers, and the big spenders buy Monarchs. The real "I live to hunt" diehards buy Swaros. But by and large, birders seem to be willing to spend more $ (be it multiple bins or one big alpha purchase) because in birding, the view is not a means to the end, but the end in itself.

Most hunters have too much $ tied up in other hunting equipment, but even so, taken as a whole, they probably buy more bins than birders even when you add in the Franks and Toms.

Not sure how big hunting is in Europe. Swaros were originally designed for Euro hunters, so there must be a significant hunting population.

I guess when it comes down to it, it's about volume of sales whether its hunting or birding optics. Even when you take away the VAT, the base price of Nikons, Swaros, Zeiss, Leica, etc. is usually more in the UK than the US, which seems odd considering that Swaros, Zeiss, and Leica are made in Western Europe.

The US has a large number of big camera/optics stores in NYC, Chicago, LA, etc., they no doubt get volume discounts, and they can afford to pass on some of that savings to their customers. So we get the better prices and the better warranties.

I admit, it's not fair and don't blame you for being bitter. But as the Godfather would say, it's not personal, it's business.

Brock
 
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I liked the 8x32 EDG I too but I was surprised with the EDG II they sent me. I didn't think I would like it as well but I do. They made alot of improvements on it. The armouring is alot nicer, the diopter works better, the eyecups stay on better and the big thing is how the balance is improved. The EDG I wasn't quite balanced but I think they spent some time on the EDG II getting the balance right and it really makes a big difference. You don't feel the weight as much. You know it's magnesium so it's going to be heavier than the Zeiss FL but it is longer and better balanced. I don't think Nikon has ANY EDG I's around or parts for them so you break yours and you get the EDG II. I think they want to get rid of all the EDG I's. You would be surprised how well the EDG II fits your hands though. You would like them so don't worry if it breaks you would be satisfied with the II.

Here's the $64,000 question. If Nikon had fixed the problem and sent you back the $750 EDG I, would you still be selling the FLs?

Brock
 
Here's the $64,000 question. If Nikon had fixed the problem and sent you back the $750 EDG I, would you still be selling the FLs?

Brock

Probably because the optics on the EDG I are the same as the EDG II. The balance of the EDG I although not quite as good as the II was still good. I prefer the EDG II now over the EDG I because of the improvements but since optics are the number one priority to me I would have still sold the Zeiss FL because I like the totally sharp FOV right to the edge on the EDG. CA control on the Zeiss and the EDG seem pretty close and although the Zeiss transmitts a little more light according to Albinos I didn't really notice it much. So the BIG difference is the edge sharpness so yes I would probably still have sold the Zeiss because I like the optics on the EDG a LITTLE more. Also, I have less money in the EDG at $750.00 than I do the Zeiss. Another reason I like the Nikon is because now after dealing with Nikon I think they have the best warranty and stand behind their binoculars better than anybody. Albino's ranked the 10x42 Alpha's Nikon EDG 1st, Swarovski Swarovision 2nd, and Zeiss FL 3rd. I really think if they tested the EDG 8x32 it would be first and when Swarovski makes the SV 8x32 it will be second and the Zeiss FL 8x32 will be third.
 
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Brock, Thanks for your keen observations on why we in the UK are treated unfairly. It's a pity we can't "go to the mattresses" on this one, but I've calmed down now and I'm happy anyway with my HGs. As to hunting, 'game' over here is mostly for looking at, not shooting, apart from a rich small minority who don't know any better and still take great pleasure in slaughtering hundreds of grouse every year. It can hardly be called 'sport', since using a shotgun more or less guarantees any fool hitting something. I don't know how popular hunting is on mainland Europe, but they're foreigners you know so we don't expect much of them; I mean, they don't even speak English, not even your version! As to the number of bins bought by Brits, my couple of dozen are probably not typical at all...

"If I seem to refer to binoculars, it's only an optical allusion".
 
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Brock, Thanks for your keen observations on why we in the UK are treated unfairly. It's a pity we can't "go to the mattresses" on this one, but I've calmed down now and I'm happy anyway with my HGs. As to hunting, 'game' over here is mostly for looking at, not shooting, apart from a rich small minority who don't know any better and still take great pleasure in slaughtering hundreds of grouse every year. It can hardly be called 'sport', since using a shotgun more or less guarantees any fool hitting something. I don't know how popular hunting is on mainland Europe, but they're foreigners you know so we don't expect much of them; I mean, they don't even speak English, not even your version! As to the number of bins bought by Brits, my couple of dozen are probably not typical at all...

"If I seem to refer to binoculars, it's only an optical allusion".


As a one time Michigander who grew up hunting Ruffed Grouse with shotgun, it was often, not enough weapon, for me to come home with a bird.
 
Hunters here are not members of a small, rich minority so things are different. With grouse, I imagine, very different. I hunted them without a dog in the scrub oak forests when I was growing up in rural Appalachia which is somewhat different than on the privately owned moors of some landed estate. And a bit more challenging. Ever have one take off from a branch about 10 feet from your ear and try to get a shot off?

Bob
 
I always marvel at the attitude that any fool with a shotgun is guaranteed to hit what they shoot at. Pretty obvious that is a recitation of a preconcieved notion and not from experience. Having said that, I have nothing particular against non hunters. I always get the idea that the reverse is not true.

Now back to the $200 diopter yank...
 
I always marvel at the attitude that any fool with a shotgun is guaranteed to hit what they shoot at. Pretty obvious that is a recitation of a preconcieved notion and not from experience. Having said that, I have nothing particular against non hunters. I always get the idea that the reverse is not true.

Now back to the $200 diopter yank...

Oh when it said birdforum I thought it was for.... hunting :flyaway:

Will it be safe for me to leave the binocular forum now?
 
Oh when it said birdforum I thought it was for.... hunting :flyaway:

Will it be safe for me to leave the binocular forum now?

Watch out for fools with shotguns on the way out. There is no off season or limit on Black Crows ;).

Where did I leave that $200 diopter anyway?
 
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I always marvel at the attitude that any fool with a shotgun is guaranteed to hit what they shoot at. Pretty obvious that is a recitation of a preconcieved notion and not from experience. Having said that, I have nothing particular against non hunters. I always get the idea that the reverse is not true.

Now back to the $200 diopter yank...

Well spoken! Do you suppose that any fool could hit 1 in a 100 on a sporting clays course? Or would that be overly optimistic?
 
For the record, I was a marksman in the Air Training Corps with a .303" rifle (R.A.F. WW2 Enfield) requiring 5 hits out of a single clip of 5, on a target the size of an old penny, without the aid of telescopic sights. Subsequently I was in a Rifle Club, and have been clay pigeon shooting, so I'm not without some experience. I was referring to shooting on grouse moors, the birds having been disturbed, so shooters know where they're coming from and when. I can't comprehend how any civilized person would want to kill birds or animals for the "fun" of it. But hey, that's just me...
 
I can't comprehend how any civilized person would want to kill birds or animals for the "fun" of it.

Emotionally, my feelings are similar. A really good book on the social history of hunting, is "A View to a Death in the Morning: Hunting and Nature Through History", by Matt Cartmill. The title, by the way, is a line from a English fox hunting song ;)
It has not changed the way i feel, but it did help me understand that set of behaviors better.

The recreational killing of "wild" animals has been a feature of nearly all civilizations wherein part of the population, small or large, has both sufficient leisure time and discretionary funds.
The actual number of people participating in what is called "Hunting" is statistically declining in the United States. Demographers relate that to increasing urban population vs rural, increased science education from the 1950's-1980's, and the growth in single parent female head of household families. I do think though the latter category is off-set in a small way by the increase in the number of recreational killers that are female, in rural areas.

But it is strongly established both socially (especially in rural areas, like where i live), and more importantly, economically in a recreational sub-sector that does significant spending in advertising and lobbying. That sector is also co-operational politically, with the whole Gun aspect of our national culture. So in the part of "civilization I live in, it is an important feature.

BTW: My use of the word recreation is to be exact. I reserve the word s hunt/hunter/hunting vis-a-vis so called wild animals to people who are socially obligate killers of wild animals, i.e., those who for geographic or economic reasons can only obtain animal protein by that behavior. I myself am an omnivorous scavenger (diners, grocery stores, etc. )

Now, back to binocularology
 
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