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Kowa 883 + 25-60 (and maybe also Kowa XD 8,5x44)...? (1 Viewer)

The Kingfisher

Well-known member
I have the Nikon ED82 with different eye pieces and I think it is a fantastic scope. I like it very very much when using it with the 30x DS eye piece. I also have the little Nikon ED50 and my main binocular is the Nikon EDG 8x42. I also own the Nikon 8x32 SE.

All equipment above are great, but I have one dilemma with the big scope - I allways have to think about which of the three eye pieces I would use in a certain situation. The 30x is fantastic, but now and then I need more power and have to change to either the 50x or the 25-75x zoom. And then back to 30x eye piece again. I could choose to use the zoom all the time, but it is a little bit narrow at 25x and at higher power it is really narrow (as looking through a keyhole). For stationary birds it works, but its hard to follow flying birds (especially terns and other birds with unpredictable movement).

So..I am thinking of a new scope with a good zoom. I have tried lots of different scopes from Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, Nikon etc, but I do not like any of them as much as I like my Nikon ED82. I have also tried the Kowa 883, and it felt better than the other. I prefer the focusing on my Nikon ED82, but I think the Kowa 883 could be a great scope for my needs.

If I remember correctly the colors are a little bit different in the Kowa 883 than in my Nikon ED82. A little more yellow, I think. That is not good, because I do not like to have different color balance in the scope and the binocular. That's why I also might buy the Kowa XD 8,5x44. For some years ago I owned that binocular. It was rather big and heavy and the colors was on the yellow side. Maybe it was not as sharp as my Nikon EDG, but I actually have had some of my best birding moments with that Kowa binocular!

Question: is the color balance in the Kowa 883 and in the Kowa XD 8,5x44 similar?

Another choise is to go Meopta..the scope with 30-60 zoom and the binocular 10X42 HD. But I have not tried the Meopta scope and binocular, so I do not know how good they really are...
 
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I have the Nikon ED82 with different eye pieces and I think it is a fantastic scope. I like it very very much when using it with the 30x DS eye piece. I also have the little Nikon ED50 and my main binocular is the Nikon EDG 8x42. I also own the Nikon 8x32 SE.

All equipment above are great, but I have one dilemma with the big scope - I allways have to think about which of the three eye pieces I would use in a certain situation. The 30x is fantastic, but now and then I need more power and have to change to either the 50x or the 25-75x zoom. And then back to 30x eye piece again. I could choose to use the zoom all the time, but it is a little bit narrow at 25x and at higher power it is really narrow (as looking through a keyhole). For stationary birds it works, but its hard to follow flying birds (especially terns and other birds with unpredictable movement).

So..I am thinking of a new scope with a good zoom. I have tried lots of different scopes from Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, Nikon etc, but I do not like any of them as much as I like my Nikon ED82. I have also tried the Kowa 883, and it felt better than the other. I prefer the focusing on my Nikon ED82, but I think the Kowa 883 could be a great scope for my needs.

If I remember correctly the colors are a little bit different in the Kowa 883 than in my Nikon ED82. A little more yellow, I think. That is not good, because I do not like to have different color balance in the scope and the binocular. That's why I also might buy the Kowa XD 8,5x44. For some years ago I owned that binocular. It was rather big and heavy and the colors was on the yellow side. Maybe it was not as sharp as my Nikon EDG, but I actually have had some of my best birding moments with that Kowa binocular!

Question: is the color balance in the Kowa 883 and in the Kowa XD 8,5x44 similar?

Another choise is to go Meopta..the scope with 30-60 zoom and the binocular 10X42 HD. But I have not tried the Meopta scope and binocular, so I do not know how good they really are...
Since I bought the Kowa 883 my ED82 is used by my wife (30X and 25-75 zoom) and friends. When traveling we take the Kowa 883 with the 25-60 zoom.

IMHO, the Kowa is the better scope. Due to atmospherics, I rarely use 60X so the ED82 25-75 zoom is not a loss. Besides, the Nikon zoom has a narrow FOV along with painfully short eye relief!!

I looked at every scope and chose the Kowa. Plenty of eye relief, the near total absence of CA and a dual focus won me over. My zoom has a few specks around 35X that I could easily exchange for a new one (met the rep at a show) but I hang on to it because the system is so perfect I don't want to upset the "apple cart", so to speak. Side-by-side I believe the Kowa 883 image is superior to the ED82 and that's saying something because the ED82 is an outstanding scope, especially with the 30X DS eyepiece.

Good luck!
 
Kingfisher,

I would not be too concerned about the colour balance differences between your Nikon binoculars and the Kowa scope. Your brain will soon adapt, and the differences - which are real - will likely stop bothering you.

I owned the Nikon ED 82 A for many years, and the Kowa 883 was the first scope that surpassed the image quality of the Nikon. Unlike you, I often use high magnifications, so I did not upgrade to the Kowa mainly due to the 75x on the Nikon zoom vs. the 60x on the Kowa. However, now Kowa also offers the 1.6x extender, so if you wish you can get to 96x on the Kowa.

I went the ATX way, and am happy with that, but the Kowa is a superb scope.

My recommendation would be for you to get the Kowa and hold on on the binocular upgrade/sidegrade for a while. In a few months you will know if you really need to coordinate colour balances or whether it is a trivial matter for you. If I analyse the images, the colour balance of my ATX 95 scope and my Canon 10x42 L IS binoculars is quite different, but it does not bother me in the least.

Kimmo
 
Since I bought the Kowa 883 my ED82 is used by my wife (30X and 25-75 zoom) and friends. When traveling we take the Kowa 883 with the 25-60 zoom.

IMHO, the Kowa is the better scope. Due to atmospherics, I rarely use 60X so the ED82 25-75 zoom is not a loss. Besides, the Nikon zoom has a narrow FOV along with painfully short eye relief!!

I looked at every scope and chose the Kowa. Plenty of eye relief, the near total absence of CA and a dual focus won me over. My zoom has a few specks around 35X that I could easily exchange for a new one (met the rep at a show) but I hang on to it because the system is so perfect I don't want to upset the "apple cart", so to speak. Side-by-side I believe the Kowa 883 image is superior to the ED82 and that's saying something because the ED82 is an outstanding scope, especially with the 30X DS eyepiece.

Good luck!

Yes, the Nikon zoom has a painfully short eye relief...especially when using it with glasses on (which I allways do). Maybe it is time (after 13 years) to invest in another scope with a better/more comfortable zoom eye piece.

For some days ago I ended a life insurance and realized that there was a value that would be refunded to me in a lump sum. Some of that money can be spent on optics, I thought. The Kowa 883 seems to be a great choice! :)
 
Kingfisher,

My recommendation would be for you to get the Kowa and hold on on the binocular upgrade/sidegrade for a while. In a few months you will know if you really need to coordinate colour balances or whether it is a trivial matter for you.

Kimmo

Wise words, Kimmo. I will follow that advice! :)
 
You won't regret buying the Kowa its fantastic. Before I bought mine I had a chance to have all the top scopes side by side at an optics event and the Kowa was the clear winner. I have long praised the Kowa Genesis binocular on this as well as other forums and continue to use my 10.5X44's when I go to the beach as the birds are usually farther away. I use my Zeiss SF's for most birding but thats because of the field of view not because of any noticeable optic differences and the fact that the Kowas are a thousand dolars cheaper doesn't hurt.
Steve
and yes I am a Kowa fanboy
 
I have now got my new Kowa 883 scope with the 25-60x eyepiece. It's a really nice scope to handle and the great fov is a dream compared to the 25-75x zoom I have to my Nikon ED82. The Kowa zoom also handles CA better than the Nikon zoom at really high power.

BUT..my Nikon scope is sharper! At the same power I see more details and have a cleaner image with my ED82 than with the Kowa. And if I use 75x power on my Nikon zoom and 60x on the Kowa zoom...it's no contest! With the 50x fixed eyepiece my Nikon is also sharper than the Kowa at 50x power. I know I have a good Nikon ED82 scope, but I still thought that the Kowa 883 would be sharper.

I have now ordered a second Kowa 883 from another dealer which I hope will be sharper. If it is at least as sharp as my Nikon ED82 I will keep it, but otherwise I will keep using my ED82. I would like to have a scope like the Kowa 883 with a zoom with large fov and eye relief, but it has to be at least as sharp as the Nikon scope. Right now I am a little disappointed because I have red here and there that the Kowa scope is one of the sharpest (if not THE sharpest) scope out there. But now I understand, they have not tried my Nikon ED82 scope... ;-)
 
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I'm sorry to hear that, Kingfisher, but I'm afraid it's an all too familiar spotting scope story. Of the six Kowa 883s I've tested over the years two were lemons, two were better but in my opinion not good enough to purchase and two were excellent scopes that I would have bought. Other premium brands, including Nikon, are not much different or are worse, except maybe for Swarovski, which I think might send out fewer outright lemons but I think has no higher percentage of cherries.

Our best defenses are knowing how to identify defects and aberrations with a star test, knowing how to measure resolution and buying from dealers with good return policies.

Henry
 
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I have now got my new Kowa 883 scope with the 25-60x eyepiece. It's a really nice scope to handle and the great fov is a dream compared to the 25-75x zoom I have to my Nikon ED82. The Kowa zoom also handles CA better than the Nikon zoom at really high power.

BUT..my Nikon scope is sharper! At the same power I see more details and have a cleaner image with my ED82 than with the Kowa. And if I use 75x power on my Nikon zoom and 60x on the Kowa zoom...it's no contest! With the 50x fixed eyepiece my Nikon is also sharper than the Kowa at 50x power. I know I have a good Nikon ED82 scope, but I still thought that the Kowa 883 would be sharper.

I have now ordered a second Kowa 883 from another dealer which I hope will be sharper. If it is at least as sharp as my Nikon ED82 I will keep it, but otherwise I will keep using my ED82. I would like to have a scope like the Kowa 883 with a zoom with large fov and eye relief, but it has to be at least as sharp as the Nikon scope. Right now I am a little disappointed because I have red here and there that the Kowa scope is one of the sharpest (if not THE sharpest) scope out there. But now I understand, they have not tried my Nikon ED82 scope... ;-)
My ED82 is as sharp or sharper than any scope I've seen. It's easy to tell when it easily "snaps to focus" and delivers a completely satisfying view.
Our Kowa 883 (25-60) is as good or better than the ED82.
I've compared them side-by-side and all I can say is the Kowa is easier to use, has a cleaner image due to less CA and a more relaxing and useful zoom.
The Kowa 883 should IMPRESS you. Sorry it does not.
 
My ED82 is as sharp or sharper than any scope I've seen. It's easy to tell when it easily "snaps to focus" and delivers a completely satisfying view.
Our Kowa 883 (25-60) is as good or better than the ED82.
I've compared them side-by-side and all I can say is the Kowa is easier to use, has a cleaner image due to less CA and a more relaxing and useful zoom.
The Kowa 883 should IMPRESS you. Sorry it does not.

The Kowa 883 is a great scope..I really like it. If it only could be as sharp as (or at least close to) the Nikon ED82 I would not hesitate to keep it. But the specimen I have home right now is not good enough, I think. I will try a second one next week - I hope that one will be better/sharper!
 
Thanks Henry for the link to your test and posts regarding the Kowas.

It reminds me of a beautiful looking Pentacon Six Zeiss east 500mm f/5.6 lens that I had, which actually is probably a 500mm f/5. I think a Tele Tessar.
I didn't understand the poor resolution, but a star test showed seriously pinched optics.

With lenses, some of the best out of focus star images were seen with Schneider professional T.V. lenses. They were beautifully made.
 
If it is a real star it should be at a reasonably high elevation and the Seeing should be good.
The star should be central.

For good quality scopes an artificial star is better, as it doesn't fluctuate as real stars do.

Last night I did a star test with the Visionking 5x25 using Capella very low down. It was changing about once a second from white to red to other colours.
But for such a low magnification it was good enough.
I could not see a reason for the poor resolution in the right barrel, so I assume it is because of poorly made lens elements, prisms or optical window. Or imperfect glass mix.

Don't use Saturn even with low power binoculars, as it is elongated.
Venus and Mercury also change shape from crescent to gibbous to round.
Jupiter is elongated by about 10%.
So for star tests real or artificial stars are needed.

For resolution I use the Moon, or Jupiter. Also distant clock faces.
I also use close double stars.
Unfortunately, I never really got into using test charts.

The most revealing tests with scopes are really seeing faint planetary detail or examining unequal double stars.

It takes time and several observations to get to know a good astro scope using real stars and planets.

There are also temperature effects which distort images.

For quick evaluation of binoculars if the sun was shining I used to place two ball bearings across the street from the shop and this quickly shows major problems. The sun's image acts like an artificial star if the distance is far enough and the ball bearing small.

Henry's testing methods seem immaculate.
 
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So would being slightly off centre affect the results? I tried a star test a couple of nights ago. All I saw was the star going in and out of focus and getting bigger. It was uniform as far as I could tell.

Ron
 
This is a test of axial aberrations, so the star should be centered. The most useful information comes from moving the focus from perfectly focused to between 2 and 6 diffraction rings out of focus in both directions (you might only see rings on one side of focus).

In a perfect telescope you will see a tiny disk surrounded by a single very dim diffraction ring at best focus, which expands as a perfectly circular bull's eye with an increasing number of rings of identical appearance on both sides of focus. Various departures from that pattern indicate something is wrong and what it is. Magnification corresponding to around 1-0.5mm exit pupil is best, but 60x for an 88mm scope is good enough for our purposes.

I prefer an artificial star. I often use the glitter point of the sun in a small shiny glass ball at about 100' for spotting scopes. There's plenty of information about star testing on the internet. Try Googling something like "telescope star test"

Henry
 
Also H. Dennis Taylor, The Adjustment and Testing of Telescope Objectives 1891, 1983.

Star Testing Astronomical Telescopes, Harold Richard Suiter.
 
Hi,

here's a lot of theory and some images on the star test:

http://www.telescope-optics.net/star_testing_telescope.htm

For a spotting scope one uses the unobstructed ones...

PS: an artificial star can also be made by laying a piece of aluminum foil on glass and making a tiny pin ***** in there. The you tape it in fron of a led flashlight and you have your artificial star.

Joachim
 
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