Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
ZEISS Summer Savings - Experience unique moments of nature. Save up to £250 on selected ZEISS Binoculars - limited time only!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Keep your cat inside during spring

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 1.00 average.
Old Thursday 15th August 2019, 06:20   #26
SteveTS
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 1,271
Change the Humans First: Principles for Improving the Management of Free-Roaming Cats, free full-text, open access
SteveTS is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 15th August 2019, 14:34   #27
CalvinFold
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019
 
CalvinFold's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: San Leandro, CA, USA
Posts: 1,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samandag View Post
Change the Humans First: Principles for Improving the Management of Free-Roaming Cats, free full-text, open access
I admit I skimmed, and it was kinda odd when every time I stopped to deep-read, it was repeating the same concept. Are all research papers like this?

In any case, did I miss something or did this paper not actually tackle the problem of feral cats head-on, but just cover the basics of how to change human behavior? Seemed like the "cat" part was just painted-onto a human behavioral study.

I say "basics" mostly because every time I stopped to read I didn't see much that would surprise, say, a trained marketing person for a consumer packaged goods company.

"The only way to get cat people to stop their cats from destroying ecosystems is to get cat people to change their behavior. Here are some ideas how to figure that out."

I don't mean to be dismissive Samandag, and am curious what your point was. I perhaps missed the point skimming due to lack of time and the yawn-inducing verbosity and repetitiveness of the author.
__________________
Kevin (aka CalvinFold)
My Gallery Equipment used: 2013 | 2014 | 20152018
CalvinFold is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 16th August 2019, 06:03   #28
John Cantelo
Registered User
 
John Cantelo's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canterbury, UK
Posts: 6,221
I've never been able to understand the mentality of people who think it's OK to release cats to wander into their neighbours' gardens whether or not they may like it. To me, it seems inconsiderate and selfish. Society does not tolerate any other domesticated animal having such freedom.
__________________
John

Please support Andalucia Bird Society www.andalusiabirdsociety.org Visit my website & blog on birding in SW Spain at http://birdingcadizprovince.weebly.com/
John Cantelo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 16th August 2019, 06:47   #29
SteveTS
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 1,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalvinFold View Post
I don't mean to be dismissive Samandag, and am curious what your point was. I perhaps missed the point skimming due to lack of time and the yawn-inducing verbosity and repetitiveness of the author.
Simply adding new material to keep Andy's thread in the news, so to speak, and in the case of this paper just the messenger. Some of the 'research' based efforts in cat control are of interest to some people and not to those who maintain a more active approach.
SteveTS is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 16th August 2019, 06:54   #30
SteveTS
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 1,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cantelo View Post
I've never been able to understand the mentality of people who think it's OK to release cats to wander into their neighbours' gardens whether or not they may like it. To me, it seems inconsiderate and selfish. Society does not tolerate any other domesticated animal having such freedom.
Agreed, and wholeheartedly.

More people need to be asking more questions of cat owners and cat lovers; more challenging questions and more often.

If your local 'cat rescue' is caring for 300 - 400 cats, and this is not uncommon, why on earth would they??
__________________
PS - Share this - partial list of vertebrates known to have been killed or scavenged by free-ranging domestic cats :
http://higheredbcs.wiley.com/legacy/...e/Appendix.pdf
SteveTS is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 16th August 2019, 06:57   #31
SteveTS
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 1,271
Back in Australia the NSW Environmental Trust have this month awarded the University of New England AU$14.6 million to tackle the devastating impact feral cats are having on New South Wales wildlife:

NSW Feral Cat Project
SteveTS is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 16th August 2019, 13:23   #32
Foxy
Registered User
 
Foxy's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Preston, Lancashire
Posts: 498
It is estimated that cats kill 30,000,000 birds per year. That sounds like a staggering, unbelievable statistic. But there are approximately 16,000,000 domesticated cats in the UK. If only half of them are allowed to roam outside that's 8,000,000 and if each only kills 4 birds a year....QED. I suspect it is a conservative figure.
The BBC reporter who analysed the statistic finished off the report with a comment that it can't be doing any harm as the bird population is surviving. Really?
Foxy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 16th August 2019, 13:28   #33
Foxy
Registered User
 
Foxy's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Preston, Lancashire
Posts: 498
....and the double standards of cat owners is incredible. To illustrate. I had two rabbits roaming free in my garden. Because my neighbour refuses to repair his broken fence one of them discovered a way into his garden where it would sit soaking up the sun. Presumably for a rabbit the sun was better in his garden than mine. He - the neighbour - asked me to stop him doing that as he was pooing on his lawn so I sorted out his fence and kept the rabbit enclosed.
In the meantime a cat - which at the time I didn't know was his - was, and still is, a regular visitor to my garden day and night where it poos much more offensively and stalks the birds at my feeders.
I really don't think he understood the hypocrisy of his request

I respect the rights of everyone to have a pet as there are no laws against it (now there's a debate for another day) but I do not think pets of any description should be allowed to roam freely where they are a problem to others

Last edited by Foxy : Friday 16th August 2019 at 13:30.
Foxy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 16th August 2019, 13:39   #34
PYRTLE
Registered User
 
PYRTLE's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: North Norfolk
Posts: 5,314
[quote=Foxy;3883302]In the meantime a cat - which at the time I didn't know was his - was, and still is, a regular visitor to my garden day and night where it poos much more offensively and stalks the birds at my feeders.

If his cat is still using your garden as a latrine, have you mentioned this at all? Perhaps you are polite and don't wish to cause any neighbourly ill feeling so you put up with it.

Me, I would happily remove the cat poo using a trowel back to the owners garden, varying the location of the projectile day by day.
PYRTLE is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 16th August 2019, 15:08   #35
Farnboro John
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Farnborough
Posts: 13,322
Unusually for me, I'm on the fence here as my local cats help suppress the invasive alien Brown Rats, so they are moderately welcome in my garden. (I was definitely tickled when Dolly the tabby dumped one on the glass roof of a neighbour's conservatory.)

I don't actually feed the birds but they find a lot of insects and as far as I can tell woof down a lot of Buddleia seed. The Blackbirds like the Holly berries. I keep the ground-level cover to an absolute minimum including trimming off low branches, so ambushing birds is pretty difficult. Hopefully difficult enough: I've never seen any of the cats catch a bird in my garden.

John
Farnboro John is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 16th August 2019, 16:58   #36
keith
Registered User
 
keith's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Teesside
Posts: 698
When I was a young lad, it was a common sight to see packs of dogs roaming the streets, people used to put them out when they went to work. Then the mindset changed, it was discouraged, these days it's unusual to see a dog running loose, probably escaped, hopefully, the cat problem will go the same way.
__________________
Keith
keith is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 16th August 2019, 19:56   #37
etudiant
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 4,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by keith View Post
When I was a young lad, it was a common sight to see packs of dogs roaming the streets, people used to put them out when they went to work. Then the mindset changed, it was discouraged, these days it's unusual to see a dog running loose, probably escaped, hopefully, the cat problem will go the same way.
Nice idea, but cats are nocturnal more than dogs, plus they tend to be solitary hunters, unlike dogs. so it is much more difficult to monitor stray cats.
I'd like to share your optimism that the social mindset will change and end this wildlife scourge, but thus far no change is evident.
etudiant is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 29th August 2019, 12:39   #38
SteveTS
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 1,271
From The Guardian : Parasitic disease spread by feral cats likely to be killing native wildlife
SteveTS is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 30th August 2019, 10:21   #39
Gill Osborne
Registered User
 
Gill Osborne's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alnwick
Posts: 6,543
Yet the biggest parasite is HUMANS!!!! It's always easier to find something else to blame.
Gill Osborne is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 30th August 2019, 14:30   #40
John Cantelo
Registered User
 
John Cantelo's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canterbury, UK
Posts: 6,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gill Osborne View Post
Yet the biggest parasite is HUMANS!!!! It's always easier to find something else to blame.
I'm less interested in where the blame lies than doing something about those issues, such as free-ranging cats, where we both know what the problems are and how they can be relatively simply resolved. In this case, it's fairly simple - don't let your moggie out to kill wildlife, impose themselves on others' gardens, etc. Sorting out the more significant problem of human overpopulation is a lot harder but that doesn't mean we shouldn't address those issues that can be resolved.
__________________
John

Please support Andalucia Bird Society www.andalusiabirdsociety.org Visit my website & blog on birding in SW Spain at http://birdingcadizprovince.weebly.com/
John Cantelo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 30th August 2019, 14:34   #41
CalvinFold
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019
 
CalvinFold's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: San Leandro, CA, USA
Posts: 1,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cantelo View Post
I'm less interested in where the blame lies than doing something about those issues, such as free-ranging cats, where we both know what the problems are and how they can be relatively simply resolved. In this case, it's fairly simple - don't let your moggie out to kill wildlife, impose themselves on others' gardens, etc. Sorting out the more significant problem of human overpopulation is a lot harder but that doesn't mean we shouldn't address those issues that can be resolved.

__________________
Kevin (aka CalvinFold)
My Gallery Equipment used: 2013 | 2014 | 20152018
CalvinFold is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 30th August 2019, 16:54   #42
PYRTLE
Registered User
 
PYRTLE's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: North Norfolk
Posts: 5,314
Dilemma time? A good neighbour runs a small registered charity that catches, treats and neuters primarily stray cats ( kittens, adults and some housed pets). All voluntary, no paid staff. Whilst many are rehomed, a fair few are returned to the area where they lived as feral. I am very aware of the impact cats have on wildlife.
So my question is, " Should I support the work they do, solely on the premise that they are trying to reduce the number of strays by doctoring, chipping and finding homes for these strays?"

Last edited by PYRTLE : Friday 30th August 2019 at 16:56.
PYRTLE is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 31st August 2019, 07:53   #43
Farnboro John
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Farnborough
Posts: 13,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by PYRTLE View Post
Dilemma time? A good neighbour runs a small registered charity that catches, treats and neuters primarily stray cats ( kittens, adults and some housed pets). All voluntary, no paid staff. Whilst many are rehomed, a fair few are returned to the area where they lived as feral. I am very aware of the impact cats have on wildlife.
So my question is, " Should I support the work they do, solely on the premise that they are trying to reduce the number of strays by doctoring, chipping and finding homes for these strays?"
Even if they are let loose, they will (a) waste matings by uncaught ferals/loose pets etc; (b) try to hold territory and move on other strays etc and (c) eventually die without replacing themselves.

All these things are better than the status quo.

So while I believe they should actually be killed on capture, its worth supporting the efforts that are being made.

John
Farnboro John is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Inside FL Eyecups Troubador Zeiss 15 Tuesday 6th January 2015 19:04
Spring 2008 Mega spring for birds rokermartin Birds & Birding 8 Monday 23rd June 2008 11:08
Inside dust already! Conorbirda2 Sigma & Other Third Party Lenses 8 Tuesday 3rd April 2007 08:27



Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.17295003 seconds with 32 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 11:47.