• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Difficulties with focus when taking birds in flight. (1 Viewer)

gordthelord

Well-known member
Hi folks, I'm after a bit of advice or reassurance. I have been trying to photograph birds in flight for a couple of months, (since I got my lovely 400mm 5.6 lens). I use this lens on my 400D and have some quite good shots. However, I find that the af is fast and pretty spot on when the bird flies past a featureless back ground like sky, but I have problems whenever a bird flies in front of a wooded back ground or something else that the lens can focus on.

I use the Al servo setting, select all af points and use evaluative metering. I keep the shutter half depressed while I,m trying to track the bird using the central af point. Even if the camera focuses on the bird intially it loses it as soon as it passes in front of a background that contains features. I noticed this particularly when trying to photograph common tern over my local fishing lakes. Admittedly this problem was highlighted when the terns were furthest away from me at the other end of the lake, (60-70 yds).

Am I doing something basically wrong, is this to be expected or is there something else that could be amiss?

I'd be grateful for any tips or advice.
Thanks, Gordon.
 
Hi folks, I'm after a bit of advice or reassurance. I have been trying to photograph birds in flight for a couple of months, (since I got my lovely 400mm 5.6 lens). I use this lens on my 400D and have some quite good shots. However, I find that the af is fast and pretty spot on when the bird flies past a featureless back ground like sky, but I have problems whenever a bird flies in front of a wooded back ground or something else that the lens can focus on.

I use the Al servo setting, select all af points and use evaluative metering. I keep the shutter half depressed while I,m trying to track the bird using the central af point. Even if the camera focuses on the bird intially it loses it as soon as it passes in front of a background that contains features. I noticed this particularly when trying to photograph common tern over my local fishing lakes. Admittedly this problem was highlighted when the terns were furthest away from me at the other end of the lake, (60-70 yds).

Am I doing something basically wrong, is this to be expected or is there something else that could be amiss?I'd be grateful for any tips or advice.
Thanks, Gordon.
I think you should try using the centre focus point only, that way you choose what to focus on not the Camera.
I also use partial metering for BIF and remember that shooting darkish birds against a light/bright sky you will need to dial in some exposure compensation to ensure that the bird is correctly exposed. I have been shooting some Buzzards today with +2 ev and they were still underexposed.
 
Hi Gordon,

I agree with Roy, using all focus points simply means the camera can re-focus on something with higher contrast, which will almost certainly be the background.
However, I've been amusing myself with the same challenge and have totally failed so far to get a decent shot of a Tern against a cluttered background. So, are we rubbish or is this a tough challenge?;)
I hope its the latter because 3 of us were trying to photograph black terns at the weekend using, I think a 1d, 30d and 40d with expensive lenses and couldn't get a focus lock between us unless the birds cleared the treeline. The birds were a long way off and the weather poor but it basically was impossible to get a shot without resorting to manual focus which I can't because i'm as blind as a bat. My best result is attached, I think the rain adds a certain something - don't laugh! :-C
If anyone else has got any tips apart from practice, practice, practice (which I'm doing) I'll love to hear them as well
 

Attachments

  • 6Q2C7391.jpg
    6Q2C7391.jpg
    139.1 KB · Views: 349
Last edited:
I have to say that I'm getting into the "all focus points" approach, and (admittedly against relatively uncluttered BGs - though interestingly, not always uncluttered) I'm getting heaps of sharp shots with my 40D and 100-400mm, albeit of fairly slow birds like gulls - although I'm doing OK with fulmars and jackdaws too.

I'll post up some examples tonight.
 
Last edited:
I've tried both methods and I have to say that I'm strongly in favour of using just the central focus point and spot metering or partial as it was on the 20D.

Both the 20D and 40D have just nine focus points. Richard in his article comments on this as he's using the 1DMk11 which has 45 focus points! Obviously that gives more coverage of the sensor. He also points out that the only way to maintain focus on birds in flight with a nine-point system is to use just the centre focus point.

Provided you get the centre point over the bird before you half depress the shutter and then wait a second or two before fully releasing the shutter I find I get far more keepers than when using all points selected - even against a plain sky - with EV compensation added.
 
It depends on the target bird for me. Swifts for example, I tend to use all the focus points, as they go so fast, and change direction. That said, I've not yet got anything good for such a bird! :-O

Normally I use the centre point, and hope. Managed a couple of sandmartin shots last week, and they're not easy to shoot. Although perhaps in this instance, the focal range was enough to get the bird and the water? I dunno...
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2761.jpg
    IMG_2761.jpg
    152.3 KB · Views: 285
  • IMG_2762.jpg
    IMG_2762.jpg
    142.6 KB · Views: 222
Even with a 1d the subject would need to be big in the frame, I assume, to use all focus points. The terns were such a speck in the viewfinder that they didn't cover enough of the centre point to get a focus lock. A speedboat and water skier in the same place were an absolute doddle to nail time after time with centre point or all points but I found passing Mallards and Canada Geese were best with centre point only. At least they came out pin sharp!
 
Even with a 1d the subject would need to be big in the frame, I assume, to use all focus points.

And that's the point, I think: if it's big enough in the frame, a subject will hit one of 9 AF points pretty much as well as it will hit one of 45 AF points.

And to be honest, if something is so small in the frame that it can't hit one of the 9 AF points, it's probably too small/far away to be worth the effort anyway..!

;)
 
I know what you mean - I'd have tried everything to get the shot, Paul.

To be clear, I do tend to use the centre AF point most of all for BIFs, but I have to say that I'm very satisfied with my all points attempts.

Probably worth mentioning too that a very talented BIF photographer in the US - Daniella - uses a 40D and all points and performs wonders. She says that 9 points in the 40D are every bit as good as the 51 points in her boyfriend's D300.
 
I have used all focus points but tend to revert back to the centre point as I find this point seems to lock-on better. One exception is Swallows in flight were I use all points and rattle off the shots in the hope that one will hit - the best Swallow shot I ever got was right on the edge of the frame.
 
Am I right in thinking that if you use all the focus points in AI servo mode the intial lock must always be on the centre point and then if the subject moves away from the centre, focus tracking can be picked up by another AF point.
 
I think you should try using the centre focus point only, that way you choose what to focus on not the Camera.
I also use partial metering for BIF and remember that shooting darkish birds against a light/bright sky you will need to dial in some exposure compensation to ensure that the bird is correctly exposed. I have been shooting some Buzzards today with +2 ev and they were still underexposed.

I find manual setting always works best here. Something like 1/800/f5.6/ISO400ish usually does a good job for me and as the manual settings are always saved you can just flip it into manual and shoot straight away.

Am I right in thinking that if you use all the focus points in AI servo mode the intial lock must always be on the centre point and then if the subject moves away from the centre, focus tracking can be picked up by another AF point.

Is it AI Focus that does that?

Also I read an article that suggested using one of the AF points just off centre (left/right) as this gives more of a chance of focussing on a birds head as opposed to a wing, only really relevant if the birds are flyng very close I guess.

Well that's my 99% worth. ;)
Jaff
 
Is it AI Focus that does that?
Jaff
Nope, according to my 40D manual (page 77) this is the way it works for AI Servo.
AI Focus is a different thing in that it behaves as one shot until it detects movement and then it switches on Servo (don't like it one bit myself).
 
If I knew where mine was I'd have a look. ;)
Mind you I am not sure that I understand the logic of what it says in the manual because that would mean that you could not select a non centre focus point and use AI Servo which is clearly not the case.
 
Am I right in thinking that if you use all the focus points in AI servo mode the intial lock must always be on the centre point and then if the subject moves away from the centre, focus tracking can be picked up by another AF point.

Yes, thats my understanding as well Roy, the manual says the camera first uses the centre focus point to achieve focus and then tracks with the other focus points.

Edit. Bit late now!
 
Last edited:
Some great tips gentlemen, you have reassured me that my equipment is functioning as it should and as usual the fault lies with the squidgy organic matter behind the view finder and not the sexy CaF style glass in front. Taking birds in flight is clearly not easy and can be rendered nigh impossible if the subject is either small, fast moving, distant, eratic in motion or indeed flying infront of something the camera finds more interesting.

I have a few new things to try now. I will experiment with selecting one af point and also with spot or partial metering. I am particularly keen to try Ians tip of waiting until the selected af point is over the bird before I half depress and then releasing after a second or two. I guess Richard Bedford is using something a little more soa than my 400D but its worth trying his techniques - he has some stunning shots.

Please keep the tips and advice coming as I'm still very much a novice and your wisdom is truly appreciated. If I get any joy I'll report back, good luck and may all your flight shots be sharp and contrasty.
Cheers, Gordon.

Some of my efforts can be seen on my flickr page:
www.flickr.com/photos/gordiesbirdies
 
For cluttered backgrounds, using the center point is the best option, otherwise the camera will hunt up and down for the background and possibly foreground objects. However, this the most difficult part of bird photography - keeping that center point on a BIF, especially if it is small and/or far away. I take my hat off to those can manage to get in focus shots.

The 1 series camera's do have a nice facility to help here (and why I bought mine). There is an option to turn focus search off. So what you do is roughly focus where the bird is (I tend to do this manually) and with inner 9 focus points on, track the bird and let the Al servo do the rest. The camera does not make large changes in focus to background or foreground objects. Of course I still need to lock with the center point initially.

The other major obstacle is holding the bird in the frame and close as possible to the center. This is really hard and when I first started, tended to be too rigid without noticing! If you can relax, it makes such a difference. Lastly knowing what flight path your bird will take helps and for this reason, I find swallows so damn hard, really hit and miss!

One more thing - you may find that you need to take several hundred photos and hope that a handful will be acceptable. With time and practise, this will increase proportionally.
Good luck.
Adrian
 
Warning! This thread is more than 16 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top