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Raptor in Tivoli, Italy (1 Viewer)

AlexC

AlexC

Aves en Los Ángeles
Opus Editor
Hi all,

I had a high flying, extremely backlit raptor soaring over Hadrian's Villa today in Tivoli, Italy. It gave the impression of longer tail and slimmer wings than a Common Buzzard, but the only other thing I could come up with was Eurasian Marsh-Harrier, and I don't have enough experience birding Europe to know if that species can be expected soaring / riding thermals so high up.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these poor images? Phone photos through my binoculars! :eek!::-C
 

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I find these kind of "impossible" photos fun, mainly because on raptor censuses you learn to ID raptors further and further away - and then confirm, either through colleages or because the bird comes nearer. When you spend many 100's of hours or more doing this its surprising how distant poor views can be done well, especially if prolonged. Of course, although these hunches very often turn out well, unless there is confirmation - its not identified! Anyway, these kind of images take me back to those days and are good practice.
 
I agree we will not have a positive conclusion. The head looks big, the bird too heavy and the carpal joints too sharp for HB imo, but again, just a feeling, nothing conclusive.
 
I did post ‘oh no’ but then deleted it. I do agree with Simon though. despite the ‘hung parliament’ or democratic majority outcome with these types of raptor images, the constant reinforcement of salient ID features of particular raptor species attributed to supporting theories of why it is ‘this’ and not ‘that’ can only be a good thing in the greater scheme of distant raptor identification in the field (or maybe a few weeks in Batumi might be a steeper learning curve!)
 
Haha thanks guys, I figured it would likely remain unknown, but maybe I could gain some general Euro-raptor tips. Unfortunately my inexperience with raptors on this continent left me in no-man's-land - not to mention that I was already 100 meters behind my (very accommodating) family's tour group when I scrambled to snap these phone photos through the bins. Kicking myself for not bringing the telephoto+DSLR along on the day's journey!
 
If I can add one more observation note - I could only see it from below, but as it circled I could intuit that there was a mild dehedral during some flight positions.
 
Valéry Schollaert said:
Marsh Harrier is an option, as Golden Eagle imo, and HB is excluded for me. Now, being positive here seems very risky.
Click to expand...

When I checked this post this morning I thought...mmm, bet its a Marsh Harrier after all, honest guv ;) Agree though, I'd never put my life on it with images like this, but if it was in a video it be another matter!
 
Golden eagle not an option. Wrong wing shape, body too slim, tail too narrow at the base.
It’s a medium sized raptor, the main source of hesitation would be a 2cy Buzzard which is objectively not easy to rule out.
 
Based on your guys' responses, I'm replaying the observation in my head and though the bird was backlit, the minimal detail I could observe underneath seemed clean. Not like a younger Common Buzzard. Based on the way it was flying and my experience with harriers in the US, that was my first impression but I was surprised at how high up it was and was unsure if it was common behavior, which triggered me to take these photos.
 
Last edited:
AlexC said:
Based on the way it was flying and my experience with harriers in the US, that was my first impression but I was surprised at how high up it was and was unsure if it was common behavior, which triggered me to take these photos.
Click to expand...
Might've been migrating somewhere. I've seen Marsh Harriers flying pretty high in Southern Europe as well, IIRC.
 
Marsh Harriers habitually soar high during migration, hardly different than any medium sized raptor in that respect - at least at migration watchpoints like the Strait of Gibraltar and Sagres, Portugal. The same applies to Hen, Montagu's and Pallid Harriers.

Also, on breeding grounds their display often involves some high soaring.

I think folk maybe don't notice them so much when they are dots in the sky ;)

Of course, when hunting or patrolling breeding territory they are low level.
 
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