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Curlew sp. at Minsmere

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Old Sunday 3rd October 2004, 17:07   #176
Edward woodwood
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watcha Marek

yep, it's great fun indeed, been too long since something intersting like this!

cheers for the pix, and yes i reckon it will get accepted to......but i'm sure there will be some twists and turns in the next few years with regards to these SBCs/whatever they are.
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Old Sunday 3rd October 2004, 17:48   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marek_walford
Got some poor photos but they do show some of the features - alert posture, rump, stretched wing etc. Take a look at http://www.berksbirds.co.uk/birdphot...ew/curlew.html
Thanks for these. Now I'm back to thinking the bill shape looks more like an Eurasian Curlew's! I dunno...
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Old Sunday 3rd October 2004, 17:57   #178
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very weird

3 and 5 look so different bill-wise

shows how photos can be confusing
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Old Sunday 3rd October 2004, 18:28   #179
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thanks to Harry for alerting me to this. Don't know who else can remember this but it's from Andrea Corso who saw SBC in Italy

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?se...&output=gplain
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Old Sunday 3rd October 2004, 20:33   #180
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Some new pix

http://www.vzwlagare.be/vwgforum/top...2&whichpage=32
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Old Sunday 3rd October 2004, 22:01   #181
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Whilst I still mantain that on initial impressions this individual is under-whelming, particularly for those brought up on phots of Moroccon adults, having examined some of the photos (and read the BB article which i probab;y should have done first) I'm slowly changing my opinion - and reckon its most likely slender-billed. On some photos it certainly looks very good.
Good news for conservationists and good news for listers
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Old Sunday 3rd October 2004, 22:22   #182
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anyone wanting to delve a bit further ought to check BB 95 (7)

it has an article describing the search for the breeding grounds. I speed read it but i think they have only ever been discovered breeding - by V.E. Ushakov - around Krasnoperovaya, Russia and even in 1910 or so were said to be declining every year!

Incidentally he noted that all three species of curlew (Eurasian, Slender-billed and Whimbrel) were common on the same marshes! He collected eggs but some of them are thought now to be of Eurasian Curlew......!

He also describes the call as being very different.

The accounts are very evocative. The article does hint at some strange goings on and some anomalies in his reports......intriguing indeed.
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Old Sunday 3rd October 2004, 22:25   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Frandsen
Thanks Tommy.
That shot showing the alert, upright posture is very reminiscent of the adults I've seen.
I don't know, nothing in any of the other photos really screams SBC to me, but I haven't seen this bird and would much rather go off what you guys who have seen in the field. Which is no more helpful!
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Old Sunday 3rd October 2004, 22:32   #184
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satellite tagging is apparently a non starter due to weight

radio tagging is also not thought to be practical either due to the problem of flying into the probable breeding areas to locate the birds: no landing strips and the thought that security clearance to fly the necessary transects would never be obtainable

stable isotope analysis (mentioned by ground roller above) could enable the area to be narrowed down to about 100-200 km but might only be usable at a 400-500 km range making the chance of finding the birds by ground searching very small
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 08:37   #185
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Just a thought about the reliability of observers impressions (my own included obviously) whilst watching the bird yesterday - the bird photgraphed above and being discussed here, a number of observers came and then left very vocally proclaiming it to be a different bird to that which had been present in the week...so perhaps the two bird theory lives again!!!!
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 09:03   #186
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Personally I don't think vagrants should be trapped. This is an however an exception.. its/their potential global rarity status... changes the rules.
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 09:27   #187
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Well, I was at Minsmere on Saturday, and it does look different from the Eurasian Curlews that it is hanging around with. It, to my eye, looks about the right size, has a more slender bill, and is more clearly patterned on the side, as per the images I have seen on line, esp the Northumberland bird.

I guess I just need the rarities committee to decree.
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 09:40   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonbirder
Just a thought about the reliability of observers impressions (my own included obviously) whilst watching the bird yesterday - the bird photgraphed above and being discussed here, a number of observers came and then left very vocally proclaiming it to be a different bird to that which had been present in the week...so perhaps the two bird theory lives again!!!!
I must admit the two bird theory crossed my mind on Saturday too. After I'd watched the bird in the stubble field around lunchtime I was shown photos of the/a bird taken on Thursday. It seemed to have a shorter bill, and from a side-on view, where you would not expect a foreshortening effect in the photograph.
Then again, all the other photos I've seen on the Net look like the bird I was watching. I just hope my mate's got a dodgy camera....

Sean
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 09:47   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogfish
I must admit the two bird theory crossed my mind on Saturday too. After I'd watched the bird in the stubble field around lunchtime I was shown photos of the/a bird taken on Thursday. It seemed to have a shorter bill, and from a side-on view, where you would not expect a foreshortening effect in the photograph.
Then again, all the other photos I've seen on the Net look like the bird I was watching. I just hope my mate's got a dodgy camera....

Sean
Perhaps it is all photograpic effects... but the initial pics showed a bird that looked tiny but had a really Whimbrel like broad tipped bill and the pic above look like quite a big bird but with a much better looking bill.
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 11:32   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogfish
I must admit the two bird theory crossed my mind on Saturday too. After I'd watched the bird in the stubble field around lunchtime I was shown photos of the/a bird taken on Thursday. It seemed to have a shorter bill, and from a side-on view, where you would not expect a foreshortening effect in the photograph.
Then again, all the other photos I've seen on the Net look like the bird I was watching. I just hope my mate's got a dodgy camera....

Sean
Interestingly this opinion was also aired by some observers yesterday (Sunday) when the bird was in the stubble field and there seems to be variations in the photos available - I guess given light/distance and optical differences.
Maybe there are observers who have viewed the bird both in the week and at the weekend that could confirm it was the same one?
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 11:39   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane Turner
Perhaps it is all photograpic effects... but the initial pics showed a bird that looked tiny but had a really Whimbrel like broad tipped bill and the pic above look like quite a big bird but with a much better looking bill.
Hi Jane,

I hate to say this but does this imply that some people may have been fooled into watching and photographing a whimbrel? This would be interesting because I talked with colleagues about that on Friday night and expected everyone to jump on me for saying the bird looked like a juvenile whimbrel (albeit a late bird). I agree that the new images are certainly more consistent with SBC and get over the bill shape issue. One of my colleagues explained that the initially straight bill on the birds shown last week was diagnostic of whimbrel. I must admit, the two bird theory makes a lot of sense if this is the case and I now understand why some people are so adamant 'the bird' is an SBC.

Ian
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 11:40   #192
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From RBA: If anyone sees the bird defecate or drop a feather, lease note the exact position of the faeces or feather and contact Adam Rowlands, the site manager.
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Come doleful owl, the messenger of woe,
Melancholy's bird, companion of Despair,
Sorrow's best friend and Mirth's professed foe
The chief discourser that delights sad Care.
O come, poor owl, and tell thy woes to me.
Which having heard, I'll do the like for thee.

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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 11:49   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Peters
One of my colleagues explained that the initially straight bill on the birds shown last week was diagnostic of whimbrel.
With respect, Ian, this just isn't true. Read the BB article I cited in post 158 and my comments there. On the Druridge bird the first half of the bill was straight and the distal half downcurved. The basal (straight) half was tapered; the distal half parallel. This was considered entirely consistent with SBC. Above all, though, the bill looked straighter overall than Eurasian Curlew because the downcurvature was not so marked. This was also entirely consistent with SBC.
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Come doleful owl, the messenger of woe,
Melancholy's bird, companion of Despair,
Sorrow's best friend and Mirth's professed foe
The chief discourser that delights sad Care.
O come, poor owl, and tell thy woes to me.
Which having heard, I'll do the like for thee.

(Anon c.1607)
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 12:02   #194
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Just a quickie for those who've seen the thing: It's been established (I think) that the bird has a few large flank spots on one side, but none on the other. Assuming that all the photos are of the same bird, it also seems to have pale wing coverts on the left-hand side, but darker ones on the right hand side! Is that really so?
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Come doleful owl, the messenger of woe,
Melancholy's bird, companion of Despair,
Sorrow's best friend and Mirth's professed foe
The chief discourser that delights sad Care.
O come, poor owl, and tell thy woes to me.
Which having heard, I'll do the like for thee.

(Anon c.1607)
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 12:09   #195
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Hi John C,

Just stopped by to wish you a warm "Welcome to Birdforum" on behalf of the Moderators and Admin. Call into "Say Hello" and introduce yourself.

Back on topic; when I first saw a photo of the Druridge bird bird I immediately thought S-b C (never seen one but did a lot of research before a trip to Romania a dozen autumns ago), the pics of this bird that I looked at over the weekend haven't had the same impact with me. Given that the two bird theory has arisen, could someone post a list of links to the most useful shots?

Cheers,

Andy.
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 12:31   #196
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watcha

the bill of the bird in Tommy Frandsen's third pic down looks markedly different from the others - is this a photographic effect? - looks shorter thicker and with different curvature, notably seeming to start much more proximally....

maybe there was a little group of em?.....
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 12:41   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Allwood
watcha

the bill of the bird in Tommy Frandsen's third pic down looks markedly different from the others - is this a photographic effect? - looks shorter thicker and with different curvature, notably seeming to start much more proximally....
I thought the Druridge bird changed appearance dramatically between photos. I suspect that jpg compression can play havoc with supercilia and bill shapes, especially on small images.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Allwood
maybe there was a little group of em?.....
Maybe we haven't been able to trace the extant breeding population cos we were looking in SW Siberia rather than in Suffolk, where they were hiding out??
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 12:56   #198
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I will just said, that I'M not the photographer of the pix, that I put online.
Whey was sent out one EBN.
From EBN:
Pictures of the Minsmere curlew sp. can also be found on the following link



http://www.vzwlagare.be/vwgforum/top...2&whichpage=32


Pictures are taken by Frederik Willemyns.


Greatings,

Peter Collaerts
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 12:59   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluetail
Just a quickie for those who've seen the thing: It's been established (I think) that the bird has a few large flank spots on one side, but none on the other. Assuming that all the photos are of the same bird, it also seems to have pale wing coverts on the left-hand side, but darker ones on the right hand side! Is that really so?
Flank spots were on both sides.
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Old Monday 4th October 2004, 13:03   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Rowlands
Given that the two bird theory has arisen, could someone post a list of links to the most useful shots?
As many pics as I could find...

http://www.rarebirdalert.co.uk/Taste...&sort=4&pos=17

http://www.vzwlagare.be/vwgforum/top...2&whichpage=32

http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gal...llery=gallery9

http://www.berksbirds.co.uk/birdphot...ew/curlew.html
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