Definition of "waterproof" (1 Viewer)

John Dracon · Mar 8, 2010

The other day I was looking at some older optical literature from Nikon. This was circa1995 when the LX roof was being offered. The literatiure said the LX was waterproof to six feet. It also mentioned to made sure the binocular was dry on the exterior before making adjustments. John

Kevin Purcell · Mar 9, 2010

Leica did the same with the Ultravid (at least the non-HD, I think they may have fixed it in the HD) in which they warned the bin wasn't waterproof when the "diopter setting" (the top knob) was pulled up but it was in the "normal use" position.

I always though that was odd ... what are they relying on to keep it waterproof. Is there a O-ring on the bottom of that knob!

Kevin Conville · Mar 9, 2010

... what are they relying on to keep it waterproof. Is there a O-ring on the bottom of that knob!

Yes.

Kevin Purcell · Mar 9, 2010

Thanks, Kevin.

Do you have a photo of it popped up?

Did they remove this requirement in the HD?

Kevin Conville · Mar 9, 2010

Do you have a photo of it popped up?
I don't understand the question. In the photo, the top cap is "popped up" in the ready-to-adjust-the-diopter position. This is why the red O-ring is exposed.

Did they remove this requirement in the HD?
I don't know. Off the top of my head I can't vision how else to keep water and dust from being trapped inside the area where the two focus wheels meet without an O-ring. It's a pretty tried and true design, as Leica Trinovids used the same setup.

Regarding maintaining waterproofness...
It's a bit of a misnomer to characterize the function of the O-ring this way as it is there to keep unwanted things out of the focus mechanism. Obviously the body of the bin is sealed independently at the focus wheel axles.

Kevin Purcell · Mar 9, 2010

Ah, I misunderstood the photo ... I didn't realize that was in the poped up state. I see the red is to warm the user.

Obviously the body of the bin is sealed independently at the focus wheel axles

Actually, it isn't ... that's appears to be the problem.

The problem is not so much water in between the focusing knobs but migrating down the concentric(?) focusing shafts and into the main bin housing that compromises the waterproofing.

Leica do call this out so don't drop it into water when setting the diopter offset!

stereotruckdriver · Mar 9, 2010

Kevin Purcell said:
Ah, I misunderstood the photo ... I didn't realize that was in the poped up state. I see the red is to warm the user.

Actually, it isn't ... that's appears to be the problem.

The problem is not so much water in between the focusing knobs but migrating down the concentric(?) focusing shafts and into the main bin housing that compromises the waterproofing.

Leica do call this out so don't drop it into water when setting the diopter offset!

This suprises me! Specially from Leica, I used to have a Trinovid and never new that? And for that matter never had a problem? Bryce...

Kevin Conville · Mar 9, 2010

Obviously the body of the bin is sealed independently at the focus wheel axles

"Actually, it isn't ... that's appears to be the problem.

The problem is not so much water in between the focusing knobs but migrating down the concentric(?) focusing shafts and into the main bin housing that compromises the waterproofing.

Leica do call this out so don't drop it into water when setting the diopter offset!"

Help me out here Kevin, how do you know this? Where does Leica "call this out"? Am I to understand you are saying water that migrates past the focusing wheel seal can find it's way into the barrels of the the bin?

Excuse me but this makes no sense. What holds the dry gas in? Leica claims a 5m (16+') submersible waterproof rating. Are we to believe this O-ring on the cap of the focuser is responsible for maintaining that seal? That when one adjusts the diopter a little nitrogen goes out and a little atmosphere enters?

It is also curious that I've never heard of this during the 20 years and 5 pair of Leicas I've had.

Last, apologies to Jay for this thread now being officially highjacked!

NDhunter · Mar 10, 2010

Kevin:
I think you are probably right that this 0-ring would not be able to seal the bin to
full waterproofness. The red color is for warning that the user has left it up, and it
is probably used to prevent dust and grit from entering, and maybe to offer the proper detent for the diopter to stay down during focusing.
I have no experience with this Leica, but have had issues with an EL focuser and had the early Nikon EDG which had the knob that moved too easily.

Jerry

njlarsen · Mar 10, 2010

James Bean said:
I've said this before and don't apologise for saying it again. Anyone who contemplates cleaning their binocular under running water, however 'waterproof' it's professed to be, must be...(how can I put this kindly?)... erm, very brave? Other epithets occur to me, (like unwise, ill-advised, foolish, stark staring bonkers) but I'll refrain from mentioning 'em in case they may cause offence. Talk about 'tempting fate'! A bit like playing a game of Russian Roulette with a Colt Magnum set on 'safety': it's extremely unlikely to blow your head off, but... why take ANY risk?

Count me in under that designation (and I would have to travel thousands of km/miles to pick up a replacement pair). I have done that a couple of times a year for a good long while.

On the other hand I met a guy the other day who had done just that to a pair of claimed waterproof bins, which had to be refurbished under warranty when they sucked water in as if they were made of filter paper :C

Niels

njlarsen · Mar 10, 2010

I have had water under the diopter adjuster in my 10 years old Leica 10x42 (I think that is what is called the BN, the old one that is built like a tank. I see no signs that this has affected the barrels at all.

And no, the water did not come in during cleaning, but during rain on a day where the diopter adjustment accidentally popped up

Niels

Kevin Purcell · Mar 10, 2010

Help me out here Kevin, how do you know this? Where does Leica "call this out"? Am I to understand you are saying water that migrates past the focusing wheel seal can find it's way into the barrels of the the bin?

From a Leica web or warranty statement ...

I was as surprised as you that they made that exception.

I'll see if I can find the original source.

For example for the compacts (perhaps it's only limited to the compacts?)

http://www.company7.com/leica/lei25blbr.html

The diopter adjustment of the ULTRAVID is accomplished quickly by a pull and turn adjustment of the Leica Multifunction Center Drive focus mechanism. This can be locked securely, and when secured it preserves the waterproof integrity of the binocular.

That wasn't the original source I saw.

It was when looking for warranty info on the top bins a short while ago.

spyglass · Mar 11, 2010

Say Rick, r u sure 820's are nitro purged?

NoSpringChicken · Mar 11, 2010

Kevin Purcell said:
I've cleaned a lot of waterproof roofs this way and not had a failure yet. Because its so much easier and so much less likely to damage the glass with running water and perhaps a clean wet fingertip.

I just cleaned a Chinese ED (Hawke) with a big sap-like splat on the objective in this way.

I think your excess caution for (especially for roofs) is, err, how do I say this without causing offense, a little "unwise, ill-advised, foolish, stark staring bonkers"

When people make JIS7 (immersion proof to shallow depth) bins and warranty them for it there is no risk to the consumer. The bin is waterproof or if it isn't it goes back.

For waterproof porros I won't immerse them but I do rely on their lens seals and water clean the objectives and the eyepieces. Again without incident.

This is from the manual for my Trinovid 8x32 BNs:
'If the binoculars, particularly the telescopic eyepiece tubes, are very dirty, rinse them in a basin of water rather than under a running faucet. Always rinse off salt water.'
The bins fogged up when I used them in heavy rain and I had to send them back to Leica for repair. I have been wary of cleaning them with water since then.

Ron

Kevin Conville · Mar 11, 2010

NoSpringChicken said:
This is from the manual for my Trinovid 8x32 BNs:
'If the binoculars, particularly the telescopic eyepiece tubes, are very dirty, rinse them in a basin of water rather than under a running faucet. Always rinse off salt water.'
The bins fogged up when I used them in heavy rain and I had to send them back to Leica for repair. I have been wary of cleaning them with water since then.

I once heard of a transmission failing in a Toyota

And Kevin P,
Until you come up with something more tangible than the ad copy from a retailer's website, the story is sounding weak, to me.
To interpret this:
"The diopter adjustment of the ULTRAVID is accomplished quickly by a pull and turn adjustment of the Leica Multifunction Center Drive focus mechanism. This can be locked securely, and when secured it preserves the waterproof integrity of the binocular."
as water can enter the body of the bin is quite a leap.

The way I read it, it can mean keeping water out of the focus mechanism.

Outside of Ron's account of his foggy Trinovids, stories of leaky Leicas are exceedingly rare. Does it make sense that these would be so uncommon if all it took was the focus cap to be popped up in the rain? I don't mean to come off as being evangelistic, but to slight Leica's outstanding reputation with such little anecdotal "evidence" I see as just unfair.

spyglass · Mar 11, 2010

Geez, now it's trannys too? I knew about the sticking throttles, jamming floormats and erratic Prius brakes.....I'm stickin' with my Yugo....

Kevin Conville · Mar 12, 2010

spyglass said:
....I'm stickin' with my Yugo....

Good plan! A lovely car.
Which model do you have? My neighbor has the Screwyurself

spyglass · Mar 12, 2010

The SUV awd w/sunroof, twinturbo DOHC V-5 and 7-range CVT. Was a spl order model & I got it just before it was discontinued. Was a natural for pullin' the ol' Airstream.....and the back would hold twenny 'leven binos and a buncha scopes 'n tripods. Now if I could only find a replacement muffler belt....

Kevin Purcell · Mar 12, 2010

"The diopter adjustment of the ULTRAVID is accomplished quickly by a pull and turn adjustment of the Leica Multifunction Center Drive focus mechanism. This can be locked securely, and when secured it preserves the waterproof integrity of the binocular."

I don't think there is any leap here. Leica point out the issue. Why mention it at all if (inverting it) having it unsecured does not preserve the the waterproof integrity of the binocular.

Why even bother having the phrase there if it doesn't mean anything.

Kevin Conville · Mar 12, 2010

Let's not create a red herring here. The leap I was referring to comes in your reply to this:

Obviously the body of the bin is sealed independently at the focus wheel axles

"Actually, it isn't ... that's appears to be the problem.

The problem is not so much water in between the focusing knobs but migrating down the concentric(?) focusing shafts and into the main bin housing that compromises the waterproofing.

Leica do call this out so don't drop it into water when setting the diopter offset!"

I then reply with:
"Excuse me but this makes no sense. What holds the dry gas in? Leica claims a 5m (16+') submersible waterproof rating. Are we to believe this O-ring on the cap of the focuser is responsible for maintaining that seal? That when one adjusts the diopter a little nitrogen goes out and a little atmosphere enters?"
This goes unanswered.

"Leica point out the issue."
Where is this?

Definition of "waterproof" (1 Viewer)

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