Raptor Id. Help (1 Viewer)

I managed to snap a picture through the car window as this large raptor flew out of a dead tree and into the woods. The picture is obviously pretty awful but perhaps someone can help with the id. I'm thinking possibly N. Goshawk?
I've enhanced the picture as much as posssible without messing the colours up.

Difficult call, Dan - I was expecting to see some tail-barring on the blow-up - none showing.

I don't think I can make any suggestion as to what it is from the picture, do you recall anything about the way it flew that might help narrow it down?

Cheers,

Andy.

Hi Dan, short tail and long wings is the opposite of what we usually look for in an accipiter like a Gos. On the other hand, that is a good ratio for an owl. Don't suppose there is any chance that bird could be a Long-eared Owl, Great Horned or such? The Long-eared are large, gray on top with long, slender wings, and a good species for boreal forest.

B Lagopus said:

Hi Dan, short tail and long wings is the opposite of what we usually look for in an accipiter like a Gos. On the other hand, that is a good ratio for an owl. Don't suppose there is any chance that bird could be a Long-eared Owl, Great Horned or such? The Long-eared are large, gray on top with long, slender wings, and a good species for boreal forest.

Click to expand...

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Owl hadn't occurred to me. What about a Great Gray? That would be exciting. There was one report of one in the province a month ago. Great Horned is definitely a possibilty but too big to be a Long-eared, I believe.

Dan,
I'd tend to go with Great grey on this - the photo's v. poor but the tail does look quite long. (But then the primaries look q. narrow!)
However it is difficult to see any id. features well enough. Do you get the west Taiga type Great horned owl out your way? They would be at least as pale as GG.
If you managed to see the massive head on GG that would be a clincher.
Halftwo

Oooh, this is nice and tricky.

I guess I'd go with Nothern Goshawk. Doesn't feel like a Great Gray at all to me. Not a whole lot to put my finger on in this photo, but I'd think the wings would be much more rounded in an owl. If you consider the conditions the photo was taken under, I can imagine that this is a blurry Goshawk.

Strix, I reckon that you would be able to see barring on a longer tail if Goshawk ? H

Yeah, I guess the tail does look pretty short for Gos.

As far as any barring showing up, given the photo I wouldn't be surprised if it kind of just blurred away. You can see how diffuse the needles of the conifers appear.

Great Horned Owl?

You can see needles on the conifers!!? LOL my monitor's not that good !

Okay, yeah, that was poorly phrased.

Anyway, here's a roughly similar shot of a GGOW

http://www.pbase.com/image/44588847

looks like a Raven to me!

Are we sure it's not a pigeon?

Strix said:

Are we sure it's not a pigeon?

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I certainly am, are you?

My first thoughts were Raven as well. The wedge shaped tail is pretty clear, and tail shape and pattern arent right for GG Owl or Goshawk.

The "wedge shaped tail" may have a strong JPEG blocking component when you look closely.

The photo below helps illustrate why I like the concept of Long-eared Owl. Long and relatively narrow wings for an owl, particularly short tail, relatively dark on top.

http://stevemetzphotography.com/images/Owls/Long-eared-Owl1a.jpg

Interestingly, when I measure on my screen and run the numbers:

Long-eared Owl:

Wing length / Tail length = 82 mm / 17 mm = 4.82 to 1

Mystery bird (500% zoom):

Wing length / Tail length = 60 mm / 12 mm = 5 to 1

Amazingly close, eh?

It is not unusual for raptors to look much bigger than they are, particularly when glimpsed in flight. If Dan was right on size, then maybe Great Horned or Great Gray, but I don't think so, for the wings are not only much broader, but the tails are relatively longer. For instance, consider this Great Gray:

http://www.ethanmeleg.com/Images/GG3-2.jpg

Wing length / Tail Length = 32 mm / 14 mm = 2.29 to 1

Wrong proportions altogether...

Well I don't know about all this mathmatics stuff but still looks like a Raven to me!

Raven

1. Although having completely black plumage Has green metallic sheen/liliac black at some angles - This is often evident in the field with other corvids too eg a Hoodie can look almost silver at times - the light on the bird in pic hits it from above thus creating a 'flat' colour effect in the photo - both wings at 500 zoom, show no colour breakdown (which you would expect with anything other than a black plumage) However, one wing still appears metalic green and the other dk lilac - the contrast being consistent with the angle of light falling on the bird's wings - a LEO even in dull conditions would still show colour variation when enlarging to 500% (same way barring would be apparent)

2. Flight Jizz - Bigger than a Buzzard (therefore can easily confused with raptor species on brief views) - From Collins p336 ''Typical flight silhouette, with long and proportionately narrow wings with 'fingered' but rather long and narrowed 'hand'....and wedge-shaped tail-tip 'Flight distinctive too ...with slow, but deep and driving, elastic wingbeats with slightly backswept hand, speed fast.''

Short views from a car - poor light - 'large raptor flying into woods' - Canadian forest habitat good?

JPEG blocking is always a factor but it doesn't block colour as far as I know - and if blocking is a big issue with structure, not sure measuring what's on the screen is particularly helpful. To be honest, doubt whether it's possible to get a conclusive Id here - the most would be to say what it isnt! (and I have no reason to think it isn't a Raven any more than I would have reason to think it a Gos or LEO - although it's obviously not as exciting )


Ps I'm sure you're right though! :bounce:

B Lagopus said:

The "wedge shaped tail" may have a strong JPEG blocking component when you look closely.

Click to expand...

There's certainly some element of jjpeg artifacts showing around the tail, BL - not enough, IMO to change the tail shape so completely;I also considered some flexing element or shadow/highlight to be affecting the apparent tail shape, I don't see enough evidence for that, either.

B Lagopus said:

The photo below helps illustrate why I like the concept of Long-eared Owl. Long and relatively narrow wings for an owl, particularly short tail, relatively dark on top.

http://stevemetzphotography.com/images/Owls/Long-eared-Owl1a.jpg

Interestingly, when I measure on my screen and run the numbers:

Long-eared Owl:

Wing length / Tail length = 82 mm / 17 mm = 4.82 to 1

Mystery bird (500% zoom):

Wing base/ Tail length = 60 mm / 12 mm = 5 to 1

Amazingly close, eh?

Click to expand...

Close, yes but surely the best (only?) measurements to compare, from the angles of the photographs, are those of the wing width/tail length?



At 400%, the bird looks reasonably sharp and I'd expect that any patterning on the upperwing and tail would be showing - there's no hint of barring or anything other than natural highlighting affecting the tones of this bird.

I'm not 100% happy with the color of this bird for a Raven but I have rarely glimpsed Ravens that at first glance, aren't really black or blackish - probably two of these sightings would have been of birds approaching these tones - the one I can recall best was in a similar setting to this with distant trees as a backdrop.

The shape looks very good for Raven to me, broad-based wings that taper fairly evenly towards a narrowing hand, sometimes the wing shape and even actions can recall Peregrine.

I've toyed with the idea of a Buteo, immature Bald Eagle and even Pheasant and can't get any of them close enough to the shape of Dans bird. I think I'd have to rule out the owls on the same grounds as I did Buteos - wing shape and lack of barring/markings.



Dan, could you furnish some more details of the bird and the circumstances, please?

Andy.

Deborah & Andy, you have built a strong case for Corvus corax! In the spirit of furthering the discussion, let me make two counterpoints:

1. I believe the "green" or other colors than black for ravens is an iridescence type effect? That typically requires bright sunlight -- and this bird is underexposed on what appears to be a dreary and cloudy day. I've never seen a raven gleam green in shadows -- have others? As to the lack of patterning, Dan indicated he had already extensively processed the image to get it where it is. With the combination of poor resolution, underexposure, and a moving target, relatively low contrast patterns would be lost altogether, and you can't rescue what was never captured in the first place.

2. Ravens are not uncommon in the boreal forest, and I assume(?) that is true on Prince Edwards Island as well? We do have more than just the photo, Dan is an experienced birder, and if he used to seeing ravens, I would expect mistaking a raven for a gos would be relatively unlikely.

Ultimately of course, if reasonable people can't agree whether the bird is a corvid, accipiter, owl, or pheasant ( ) we are unlikely to get a subspecies and age out of this bird -- but unresolvable discussions can be enjoyable nonetheless!

I really appreciate the comments from everyone. Thank you!
I will fill in a few blanks that may or may not help with the id. knowing, however, that this will never be fully resolved. I'm also attaching a size reduced, jpeg copy of the original RAW file. If anyone wants the RAW version, let me know and I'll send out. Just remember that it is a large file.
Ok, here's how things developed. My wife and I had been out birding and were making our last stop of the trip. We were driving into a wildlife management area when I spotted a dark shape in dead tree near the road. My impression was of large, dark hunched form. I stopped and backed up but the bird took off before I could get binos or camera going. My wife immediately said eagle but i am quite sure it wasn't. It wasn't a raven. I see ravens everday and Bald Eagles frequently (daily or weekly depending on the time of year). The day was dull and it was 1:57 PM when I took the picture.
The bird flew into a row of trees that shot off from large woods. I'm sure that it landed in them but I couldn't find it so it may have moved again without me seeing it.
I've occasionally encounter Barred Owls in daylight but never a GHO. The Barred were always in the woods not outside of them. My immediate reaction to the bird was puzzlement then I thought NOGH. At approx. 2 in the afternoon I never thought owl.
I still tend to think the same thing. If this were a GGO (which I'd love it to be, they were only added to the provincial list in the last wo years as Accidental in Fall) I believe that it would not have flown so quickly. All of the northern owls that I've run across tend to have no fear of man and have to be pushed before they fly. This is certainly true for Snowy's and N. Hawk Owls.
I sent the picture tio the two top birders in the province and they replied with possible GGO but one mentioned possible NOGH, the other one suggested GHO.
The bird was first seen in the dead tree in foreground on the left.