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Is there a a little more bright, wider FoVd & neutral color Toric for <=$1000? (1 Viewer)

Even the top tier of binoculars have trade offs. That never goes away. Your binoculars are not your binoculars because they are perfect. They are your binoculars largely because you can accept the trades offs they have, sort of the same as with your friends I suppose.

I have long ago given up being surprised at differing reactions to the same binocular. You and I see the Toric and the Monarch 7 in sort of opposite ways. However I could be fine with either one. I have never had the chance to see a Monarch HG. However from looking at its specifications balanced against what you say you want then I see it as likely the best first option. Just don't fill yourself up with any preconceived ideas of what the HG will be based on what we have all said about them. Just take it out of the box and let it tell you what it has to tell you. Yours is the only opinion that matters. ;)
 
Steve C said:
Even the top tier of binoculars have trade offs. That never goes away. Your binoculars are not your binoculars because they are perfect. They are your binoculars largely because you can accept the trades offs they have, sort of the same as with your friends I suppose.

I have long ago given up being surprised at differing reactions to the same binocular. You and I see the Toric and the Monarch 7 in sort of opposite ways. However I could be fine with either one. I have never had the chance to see a Monarch HG. However from looking at its specifications balanced against what you say you want then I see it as likely the best first option. Just don't fill yourself up with any preconceived ideas of what the HG will be based on what we have all said about them. Just take it out of the box and let it tell you what it has to tell you. Yours is the only opinion that matters. ;)
Click to expand...

The more binoculars I look at, the more I agree with all of this statement. Well said.
 
Steve C said:
Even the top tier of binoculars have trade offs. That never goes away. Your binoculars are not your binoculars because they are perfect. They are your binoculars largely because you can accept the trades offs they have, sort of the same as with your friends I suppose.
Click to expand...

Agreed. After owning basically one model or another from all the top manufacturer's, that is why I have yet been able to justify keeping an alpha, given the price - my monetary supply is limited, so if I have to make trade-offs, I may as well make them in a more budget friendly option.

Now, an alpha with no-tradeoffs would be a sight worth seeing... Swarovski's SLC HD is close, but not quite perfect to my eyes.
 
It's a strong argument for not just going all in on 1 top alpha and expecting to be satisfied. With so many really good mid-priced binoculars buying in different formats, sizes, fov etc over a period of time and getting to know what suits is no bad thing. Sometimes people say you'd be better off putting this money into 1 alpha. I disagree as that 1 alpha is still going to be a compromise and not as versatile as a few good mid-priced bins that you've acquired for different situations.

mskb, looking forward to hearing how you get on with the MHG.
 
mskb said:
@SteveC, thank you so much for your detailed insights! Over the weekend, I took the Toric 8x42 to a wildlife refuge. Roughly 8000 snow geese had dropped, it was a great sight to watch and follow with the Toric, as the focus was snappy, and the contrast punchy! The day turned to being dark, gloomy and dull, and like @jamesholdsworth mentions with some of his other binoculars, I felt things started getting trickier with the Toric. We had the Monarch7 to compare against. The advantages the Toric had over the M7 in terms of snappier focus and sharpness did vanish in that dull light; the M7 appeared brighter. CA felt a little high with the Toric - this could possibly be because of not getting a precise focus in dull light / tricky eye placement issues. I am no expert with these things, just mentioning some of my observations.

All of your statements (thanks @typo, @jremmons, @Upland, @pbjosh, @Troubador, @Inquisitor, @Patudo & @Canip / @Chuck's previous threads) makes it abundantly clear that there are trade offs associated, and one needs to spend top dollars to see some of that gone. Ergonomically, I think the M7 worked the best for me (although I felt like the Toric gave me less shaky view), so I expect the MHG to do as well at least. Given your comments, I feel quite good about ordering an MHG and trying them side by side with the Toric. With @Upland’s help, we ordered an MHG on sale prices. I will definitely write back mentioning what I end up deciding to keep. Thank you very much for all your help and support!
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I think you will be happy with the HG.

As someone who has just got one and was previously using the Monarch 7 I can say it is an improvement in every facet. Sharper, brighter, more contrast, much much better glare control and sweet spot is big (not quite edge to edge but definitely not distracting or dark on the edge like the 7 can be in some conditions). The HG is also much better built. I thought the Monarch 7 was a good focuser but using them side by side the HG has better focus snap and requires less fine adjustment.

It's a great bino. Proabably as good as I will ever need. Any missed IDs are my fault as a birder and not the bin. Just use it and enjoy.
 
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Thank you everyone.

I received the 8x42 MHG and had a few trials outside. Not sure about sharpness, but CA wise the TT and the MHG are likely very comparable. In terms of colors, I felt the Toric's color contrast was higher. MHG was more natural looking, and I felt it a tad more bright than the TT.

The Toric’s depth of field, color contrast and 3d like view is just right for me leading to very easy and a quick focus in most light conditions. The weight is very nicely balanced, and is great for me in terms of reducing shakes. My copy’s focus wheel stiffened up quite a bit on a cold winter 32 degree F winter day! But I am sure a fix is just a call away. With such nice personally working ergnomics, and the really fast and snappy focus I don’t think I mind the smaller FoV or the loss of brightness. With more use, I think there are two issues with my copy of the Toric that I really need to figure out; if it works out in my favor, I think I would choose to keep the Toric over the MHG, despite the latter's larger FoV.
(1) there was always a personal annoyance/struggle setting it up for subjects in near and far distances (IPD & eye cup settings), and
(2) there was always a feeling like there was something bothering the view on the right and left edges of the already smaller FoV.

I hope to talk to the Tract staff to check if these issues are perhaps copy specific. If they are, I will request another copy. If not, for the two reasons mentioned above, I am most likely going the MHG route. The MHG is definitely too light for my taste, and I currently feel the view is relatively more shakier for me. I will continue to use it and see if things improve.

How I wish the TT copy had worked out! I will write back if anything changes. Thanks everyone for the support.
 
I hope you can get these binoculars to work well for you. It does take some practice and time with
getting set up for your eyes.


Let us know what your experience with Tract is. Good luck.

Jerry
 
Excellent comparison. I've had my Schott Torics for a couple weeks but was debating between them and the Monarch HG due to lower weight and larger FOV. The Tracts are impressive, especially in build quality and veiling glare. They seem more sensitive to eye position than other binoculars I've used and I see a little more CA than I expected, but I'm hoping that will all improve as I use them more.
 
MHG it is.

Dear All,

I had a chance to play around with both the MHG & the Toric 8x42s. I have now decided to return the Toric.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to overcome the ergonomics issues with the Toric. MHG won in that regard. Thanks to David's help, I was able to do some center resolution comparisons; the MHG copy had a slight edge. But a lot more off-center area of the field of view appeared relatively more sharper with the Toric.

Toric's contrast & snappy focus was such a joy, and I will miss it dearly. Be it the black wingtips of a snow goose on a cloudy day, or a fast approaching dove, the focus was there right alongside with them!

As I let go of the Toric, I am left with the following feeling on the Toric vs. MHG value. If it comes down to spending $500- for a Toric, vs. $850+ for a new MHG, I will choose the Toric in a heartbeat. OTOH, if it is $500 for a Toric vs. $700 for an MHG or less, the choice is much harder. Weight & FoV, natural colors, and easy setup might swing the choice in MHG's favor.

If you are in the same boat as me, my recommendation would be to try both to decide. Also, the Toric's close cousin, Opticron Imagic BGA(?), $610 new (vs. the ~$680 for a new Toric) might also be worth checking out.

Thank you everyone for the help and support!

-- Kumar
PS: Tract is currently running a sale on the 8x42 Torics I think. If you are curious, definitely give them a try!
 
james holdsworth said:
Funny that people keep commenting on the MHG and off-axis softness, yet it is clearly inscribed on the barrel as ''field flattener''.....
Click to expand...

It is hard to compare the two. They have much different specs. FOVs are much different. Monarch 8x42 HG has much wider FOV with its a flat field: 8.3º. 8x42 Tract Toric has 7.2º FOV. Edges likely would appear softer on the wide field Monarch. Certainly their eye pieces are different.

https://www.tractoptics.com/products/binoculars/toric-binoculars

https://www.allbinos.com/1779-Nikon_Monarch_HG_8x42-binoculars_specifications.html

Bob
 
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Everyone, Sorry for resurrecting our old thread again. After using the MHG a good bit outdoors, I just want to say, I dearly miss the Toric's color contrast and that copy's focus. If only the Toric had less (latit & longit) CA, I would be calling Tract again to take a good hard look at the Torics one more time.

On the bright side this experience has refined my expectations from a binocular. I would personally now place {punchy color contrast, sharpness, quick focus, CA control that is not very sensitive to eye placements} on top, and I am OK losing {FoV & brightness} & gaining {glare, weight} if that means a cost effective solution. Neutral color balance is ideal, but closer to Toric is more than OK as well. I have absolutely no interest in field flatteners. I do want that sweet spot to be very clear, want room for eyes to move around the field of view a decent bit comfortably so as to follow quickly moving subjects in the woodlands.

MHG is most certainly going back, and I am back in the market searching. So far, the above thoughts are taking me to the Kowa Genesis, and I am right now debating the weight gain and the fact that it is such an old release . If you have any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate them! $300-$1000 is the budget range. Thanks in advance!
 
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I have the Kowa Genesis 8x33. To my eye, it performs extremely well in three of your four top requirements. I would consider the focus a little on the slow side based on number of turns and resistance of the focuser. The x33 size also does very well for FOV, brightness, and glare. I think the x44 sizes don't have as good a FOV.

The only significant downside to the 8x33 Genesis is the size of the sweet spot. it's very small even when compared to binoculars costing much less. If you tend to center your subject in the FOV--like most folks--than it isn't an issue.

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts on the MGH. It's really the only binocular that I have thought "what if" a few times since purchasing the Kowas.
 
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Thanks @18000bph for your thoughts. I was considering the the 8.5x44, and it is pretty clear that focus is not going to be quick. As long as I don't have to focus/re-focus over and over, and snap to view even if the focus itself is "slow" requiring a good turn of the focus wheel, I have a feeling I wouldn't mind. But I can never be sure, I will have to try the Genesis in the real world to check out. Thank you!
 
Thanks to everyone who responded here and through PMs!

Just as an update/conclusion, I looked up the Genesis, and figured it was too old of a release to buy into now. I have decided to wait until next year to see if a new version of that or the Meopta Meostar HD shows up as an 8x42.

For the meantime, I put in a lot of thought on which lower/mid range to go after. Even though I had other issues with it, I seemed to always prefer the Toric! So much so that I didn't not care how weird the following felt: I called up Jon LaCorte @ Tract again, described this ordeal, asked him if there is anyway I could get my good old Toric back. He called up the warehouse, went over there (thanks so much Jon!), figured out my copy was sold as a demo to some lucky person out there. They don't have any others in stock, in fact, none of the Toric 8x42 Schott are in stock, and the next supply of Toric 8x42 is due sometime mid Spring.

Too bad, I have a Feb Florida trip coming up. Heart wants the Toric/any bin that has its color contrast & quick focus, and I am stuck with the MHG! Oh well.

Any suggestions welcome!
 
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Why not use the MHG and enjoy the trip, it may grow on you, after all one glass is better than none, when traveling.

Andy W.
 
Thank you Chuck and Andy!

A couple of forum members did recommend the Maven B2 already, and it is quite encouraging to hear it again!

It appears B2 isn't offered in the 8x yet. For a 7x/9x B2 usage in the woodlands/hiking, weight was my major concern. The Toric-like 7.2˚ / 7.4˚ FoV doesn't bother me that much now.

Given the recommendations, I am quite curious to try a 9x demo out! I will hope to take the B2 alongside the MHG 8x for the trip. Thanks!
 
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