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Sylivia inornata iberiae

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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 08:04   #1
andyadcock
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Sylivia inornata iberiae

Can someone tell me why the relatively, newly described race iberiae, is being used as the nominate for Western Subalpine Warbler following the recent split?

https://academic.oup.com/zoolinnean/...dFrom=fulltext

Sorry if I'm making a fool of myself again but shouldn't inornata be the nominate form?
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 08:07   #2
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Because, according to their result, inornata is embedded within subalpina, and become a junior synonym of it. iberiae is the sole name available for this lineage.
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 08:10   #3
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Because, according to their result, inornata is embedded within subalpina, and become a junior synonym of it. iberiae is the sole name available for this lineage.
Thanks but forgive my easily addled brain,
inornata is now under Moltoni's then?

This is what confuses me .................

In 2013, Lars Svensson summarised the latest research on the taxonomy of the Subalpine Warbler complex and recommended the split of the complex into three different species (Svensson 2013). Moreover, he formally described a new subspecies for the ‘western cantillans’ clade identified genetically by Brambilla et al. (2008b). Here is a summary of the suggested species:

Western Subalpine Warbler (Sylvia inornata), with two subspecies:

Sylvia inornata inornata: breeding in Northwest Africa. (Before this taxonomic revision, Sylvia cantillans inornata was the name of the North African birds).

Sylvia inornata iberiae subsp. nov.: a new subspecies described by Svensson (2013) for the birds breeding in the Iberian Peninsula, southern France and extreme northwest Italy. See the map. (This is the same clade named ‘western cantillans’ by Brambilla et al. (2008b).


I assume that the older paper from which it's taken (https://www.magornitho.org/2013/10/s...warbler-split/) is superceded by the latest work and that Western now only comprises of iberiae?
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 08:13   #4
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You don't have the paper?
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 08:17   #5
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You don't have the paper?
Sorry, see my edit.
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 10:43   #6
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Thanks but forgive my easily addled brain,
inornata is now under Moltoni's then?
Yes, it turns out the typer series on inornata, which was collected in Tunisia in spring, were actually migrant Moltoni's. See this paper: https://academic.oup.com/zoolinnean/...dFrom=fulltext

Edit for clarity: inornata thus becomes a junior synonym of subalpina, but the birds breeding in North Africa are Western Subalpine Warblers, now S. iberiae (the only name available for populations breeding in North Africa and western Europe)

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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 11:27   #7
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Everything I read about this seems to suggest different things!

The actual paper, or at least the abstract, that is referenced in the IOC Diary announcement does not mention inornata at all. Yet elsewhere it is used for the North African form of Western Subalpine.

I think I will wait for a proper explanation - don't know who will provide it though.

And really, when it comes down to it, they are all Subalpine Warblers anyway: I much preferred it that way.

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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 12:31   #8
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Originally Posted by Steve Lister View Post
Everything I read about this seems to suggest different things!

The actual paper, or at least the abstract, that is referenced in the IOC Diary announcement does not mention inornata at all. Yet elsewhere it is used for the North African form of Western Subalpine.

I think I will wait for a proper explanation - don't know who will provide it though.

And really, when it comes down to it, they are all Subalpine Warblers anyway: I much preferred it that way.

Steve
I was also confused Steve, but this is because inornata is now gone.

You'll see from what I posted above that in 2013 Svensson, treated inornata as a race of Western and identified iberiae which at the time was a new discovery and also placed it under what we now call Western.

The new paper, changes that arrangement.

This arrangement at HBW also needs to be changed with just iberiae under Western and inornata gone in to Moltoni's, basically, disappeared - get it now?

https://www.hbw.com/species/subalpin...via-cantillans
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 12:42   #9
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Originally Posted by Steve Lister View Post
Everything I read about this seems to suggest different things!

The actual paper, or at least the abstract, that is referenced in the IOC Diary announcement does not mention inornata at all. Yet elsewhere it is used for the North African form of Western Subalpine.

I think I will wait for a proper explanation - don't know who will provide it though.

And really, when it comes down to it, they are all Subalpine Warblers anyway: I much preferred it that way.

Steve
it's confusing because there are simultaneous discussions about species limits and nomenclature/type species etc.

anyway, as I understand it (please correct me if wrong) the latest position (incorporating the findings of several different papers up to and including Zuccon et al) is as follows:-

WESTERN SUBALPINE Sylvia iberiae (monotypic) Iberian Pen., s France, extreme nw Italy, nw Africa

MOLTONI'S Sylvia subalpina (monotypic) w Mediterranean, nw Italy

this has junior synonyms moltonii AND inornata (because the type specimen of inornata collected in Tunisia turned out to be migrant subalpina [Note - i've not actually read this paper apaprt from the abstract so going off what other people said])

EASTERN SUBALPINE Sylvia cantillans

with two subspecies

c, s Italy, Sicily = cantillans

ne Italy through se Europe to w Turkey = albistriata


IOC have accepted the split but they only update the list twice a year so this page https://www.worldbirdnames.org/bow/sylvias/ hasn't been updated yet

I guess it remains to be seen whether they accept the new nomenclature or not

cheers,
James

EDIT: just seen Andy's post - i don't think that's quite right. As i understand it Moltoni's remains monotypic, inornata as a name disappears, and the N.African birds are merged into iberiae

Last edited by James Lowther : Thursday 7th May 2020 at 13:04. Reason: to reflect merging of North African and Iberian birds into one taxon
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 12:43   #10
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I didn't read the paper in detail but I have the impression that only the lectotype of inornata has been sampled but, what about the holotype?
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 13:00   #11
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good explanation of everything here:-

https://www.magornitho.org/2020/05/s...omy-revisited/

so it seems Zuccon et al consider Western Subalpine to be monotypic (small genetic difference between North AFrican and Iberian birds) so no need for a new name for the so far undescribed N African birds.

So i'll edit my post above to reflect that!

cheers,
James

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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 13:12   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lowther View Post
it's confusing because there are simultaneous discussions about species limits and nomenclature/type species etc.

anyway, as I understand it (please correct me if wrong) the latest position (incorporating the findings of several different papers up to and including Zuccon et al) is as follows:-

WESTERN SUBALPINE Sylvia iberiae (monotypic) Iberian Pen., s France, extreme nw Italy, nw Africa

MOLTONI'S Sylvia subalpina (monotypic) w Mediterranean, nw Italy

this has junior synonyms moltonii AND inornata (because the type specimen of inornata collected in Tunisia turned out to be migrant subalpina [Note - i've not actually read this paper apaprt from the abstract so going off what other people said])

EASTERN SUBALPINE Sylvia cantillans

with two subspecies

c, s Italy, Sicily = cantillans

ne Italy through se Europe to w Turkey = albistriata


IOC have accepted the split but they only update the list twice a year so this page https://www.worldbirdnames.org/bow/sylvias/ hasn't been updated yet

I guess it remains to be seen whether they accept the new nomenclature or not

cheers,
James

EDIT: just seen Andy's post - i don't think that's quite right. As i understand it Moltoni's remains monotypic, inornata as a name disappears, and the N.African birds are merged into iberiae


Corrected, thanks.
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 13:16   #13
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The last paper (Zuccon et al 2020) is still freely downloadable from https://doi.org/10.1093/zoolinnean/zlz169 , at least from here.

  • Sylvia subalpina Temminck, 1820 (Moltoni’s warbler), monotypic -- north-central Italy, Corsica, Sardinia, Balearics
    Synonyms: Sylvia subalpina Temminck, 1820; Sylvia subalpina inornata Tschusi, 1906, Sylvia cantillans moltonii Orlando, 1937
  • Sylvia iberiae Svensson, 2013 (western subalpine warbler), monotypic -- North Africa, from Tunisia to Morocco, Iberia, southern France, extreme north-west Italy
    Synonyms: Sylvia inornata iberiae Svensson, 2013
  • Sylvia cantillans (Pallas, 1764) (eastern subalpine warbler), polytypic
    • Sylvia cantillans cantillans (Pallas, 1764) -- southern Italy, Sicily
      Synonyms: Motacilla cantillans Pallas, 1764; Sylvia leucopogon ‘Heckeli’ Schinz, 1821, Sylvia leucopogon ‘Heckeli’ Meyer B, 1822
    • Sylvia cantillans albistriata (Brehm CL, 1855) -- extreme north-east Italy, Balkans, Greece, western Turkey
      Synonyms: Curruca albistriata Brehm CL, 1855
IOC accepted this revision, so far as I understand:
Quote:
May 6 Split Western Subalpine Warbler from (Eastern) Subalpine Warbler with adjustment of scienfic name following Zuccon et al. 2020.
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 13:28   #14
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much better! - thanks Laurent,
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 13:49   #15
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Originally Posted by LeNomenclatoriste View Post
I didn't read the paper in detail but I have the impression that only the lectotype of inornata has been sampled but, what about the holotype?
There cannot be a holotype if there is a lectotype.
(A holotype is a specimen which was made the unique name-bearer type in the OD of a taxon; a lectotype is a specimen which was subsequently designated as the unique name-bearer type, from the type series of a taxon for which no holotype was fixed in the OD.)

Insular (Corsica, Sardinia, Balearics) and continental (NC Italy) populations of Moltoni's Warblers are slightly different in their mtDNA. This was not regarded by Zuccon et al. as sufficient to treat them as distinct taxonomically, but it's enough to identify a bird. The lectotype of inornata is an insular Moltoni's.
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 14:01   #16
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OK, thanks. If inornata disappear, the "Fauvette passerinette (stricto sensu)" will be Sylvia (Curruca) iberiae ?
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 14:44   #17
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OK, thanks. If inornata disappear, the "Fauvette passerinette (stricto sensu)" will be Sylvia (Curruca) iberiae ?
Depends what you call "Fauvette passerinette (stricto sensu)" -- there are no universal rules about how to restrict the sense of a vernacular -- but if you mean the mainland French breeding populations, yes.
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 15:03   #18
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good explanation of everything here:-

https://www.magornitho.org/2020/05/s...omy-revisited/

so it seems Zuccon et al consider Western Subalpine to be monotypic (small genetic difference between North AFrican and Iberian birds) so no need for a new name for the so far undescribed N African birds.

So i'll edit my post above to reflect that!

cheers,
James
The idea remains that despite 'inornata' as a name being incorrect, the birds in NW Africa do in fact look different - cf Sylvia Warblers Shirihai et and Handbook of Western Palearctic Birds Vol1 Shirihai & Svensson. Both describe birds from this region (a 'presumably resident' population) as having plumage differences.

http://www.surfbirds.com/Features/su...20Mor0306b.JPG - male

I understand that the paper is saying simply that inornata cannot apply to the NW Africa population, but should there be a new name for them? Or not?

Or am I missing something?

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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 15:21   #19
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The idea remains that despite 'inornata' as a name being incorrect, the birds in NW Africa do in fact look different - cf Sylvia Warblers Shirihai et and Handbook of Western Palearctic Birds Vol1 Shirihai & Svensson. Both describe birds from this region (a 'presumably resident' population) as having plumage differences.

http://www.surfbirds.com/Features/su...20Mor0306b.JPG - male

I understand that the paper is saying simply that inornata cannot apply to the NW Africa population, but should there be a new name for them? Or not?

Or am I missing something?

Brian
I think the paper is saying that a new name is not necessary as western can be treated as a single taxon i.e. not a big enough difference between African and Iberian birds to justify two subspecies. This conclusion is based on the MagrebOrnitho write-up rather than the paper itself as i still can't access that..

"the difference is too small and the authors consider that a new name for North African birds is not needed"

however, if you were to take the opposite view and say that based on genetics and plumage differences that two subspecies were justified, then at present there is no scientific name available, as no scientific description of African birds has been carried out..

I think..

James
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 15:35   #20
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I understand that the paper is saying simply that inornata cannot apply to the NW Africa population, but should there be a new name for them? Or not?
They say current evidence does not justify a new name.
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The purported differences between North African and European specimens indicated by Svensson (2013a) appear to be extremely weak: (1) the main stated difference is the colour (‘being less yellow-tinged above and below, which difference is particularly obvious in series’), but no quantitative analysis is presented, and a colour gradient has been suggested, with southern Spanish individuals becoming increasingly similar to African breeders (Shirihai et al., 2001); (2) morphometric differences are vaguely stated without a proper statistical comparison and are apparently minute (‘iberiae is on average slightly smaller, although differences are miniscule and unhelpful for identification’); and (3) the new taxon is based on the study of 58 and 57 specimens of iberiae and inornata sensu Svensson (2013a), respectively (see also Svensson, 2013b: table 1). However, the majority of these were collected during the migration period (Table 7). The species group has a complex migration pattern, with birds belonging to different clades migrating together and being captured at the same sites (Brambilla et al., 2012). In addition, the phenotypic identification of individual specimens in the complex remains challenging, with 9% of genotyped birds misidentified and 19% considered as intermediate/doubtful when ringed individuals are examined in hand (Brambilla et al., 2010). The difficulties in separating individual specimens between the two subspecies is acknowledged by Svensson (2013a) himself (‘at least 75% differ diagnosably, probably many more’). It seems to us that the only specimens available for a reliable comparison among those listed in table 1 of Svensson (2013b) should be those collected during the breeding period and well outside the migration. When specimens collected before 15 May and after 31 July are excluded, only 11 North African and eight European breeding birds remain, representing a much smaller sample than stated by Svensson (2013b) (Table 7). Attributing any other individual to the North African or the European breeding population seems to us either circular reasoning, if based on the supposed colour differences between the two groups, or totally unwarranted, if based on capture locality alone. For these reasons, until more robust analyses on breeding birds only are provided, we reject the recognition of any subspecies in clade 3, which will thus become a monotypic species named Sylvia iberiae.
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 15:35   #21
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The idea remains that despite 'inornata' as a name being incorrect, the birds in NW Africa do in fact look different - cf Sylvia Warblers Shirihai et and Handbook of Western Palearctic Birds Vol1 Shirihai & Svensson. Both describe birds from this region (a 'presumably resident' population) as having plumage differences.

http://www.surfbirds.com/Features/su...20Mor0306b.JPG - male

I understand that the paper is saying simply that inornata cannot apply to the NW Africa population, but should there be a new name for them? Or not?

Or am I missing something?

Brian
I hope this isn't breaking any protocols, apologies if it is, I'll remove if so advised.

A quote from the paper, no idea if anyone can glean anything from this, most of this way over my head.


Clade 3: western subalpine warbler

At the high end of genetic divergence, clade 3 is isolated from all other lineages in both mitochondrial and nuclear markers. Mitochondrial distances from the other clades are high (3.3–4.1 and 4.4–5.2% for Cytb and COI genes, respectively) and comparable to those observed between full species (Helbig et al., 1995; Hebert et al., 2004; Pons et al., 2016). The substantial lack of shared nuclear alleles is evident in the single intron and in the multilocus networks, and the inferred lack of gene flow with the other lineages supports the recognition of clade 3 as a full species-level group

Genetic analyses of our small North African sample size (one breeding bird from Tunisia and five breeding birds from Morocco) suggest that the populations from the entire Maghreb belong to the same lineage, which is closely related to western European populations from Portugal, Spain, France and north-west Italy. Gene flow between European and North African populations probably followed a western route acrossthe Strait of Gibraltar rather than the Strait of Sicily.This interesting result would need to be confirmedusing more individuals.

Many species belonging to diverse zoological groups occur on both sides of theStrait of Gibraltar, whereas Italian–North African endemics shared across the Strait of Sicily are muchrarer (Husemann et al., 2014). Considering birds,the biogeographical importance of the Strait ofGibraltar as a link between Europe and North Africa has been pointed out by several studies dealing with different species [e.g. Galerida cristata (Linnaeus,1758), Guillaumet et al., 2008; Muscicapa striata(Pallas, 1764), Pons et al., 2016].

Unlike the European population, we did not detect any sign of population expansion for the North African population. Such a difference suggests that these populations do not share the same demographic history. From a biogeographical perspective, it would be interesting to test whether the Maghreb could have played a role as a glacial refugium for the western subalpine warbler.
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 15:48   #22
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[...] the paper itself as i still can't access that.
OK, I get it now.
If I go directly to it, I can't access it either.
I can access it when I follow the link posted by Justin [here], which has a "guestAccessKey" in it.
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Old Thursday 7th May 2020, 16:05   #23
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OK, I get it now.
If I go directly to it, I can't access it either.
I can access it when I follow the link posted by Justin [here], which has a "guestAccessKey" in it.
thanks!
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Old Monday 11th May 2020, 10:27   #24
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Having looked at the figures in the paper, I'm amazed the authors stuck with Moltoni's being monotypic. The mtDNA divergence between the island population and Italian mainland population is comparable to that seen between the two Eastern subspecies.
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