Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Zeiss - Always on the lookout for something special – Shop now

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

African Reed Warbler

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Sunday 26th May 2019, 11:42   #51
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
 
Nutcracker's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 17,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lowther View Post
P.s. getting DNA sequence from a faecal sample should be easy,
Or not, depending on how deep the water and mud are that the reeds with the pooh on, are growing in
Nutcracker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 26th May 2019, 12:05   #52
James Lowther
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Weymouth
Posts: 2,759
I didn’t say getting the sample was easy.

James
James Lowther is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 26th May 2019, 12:27   #53
opisska
Jan Ebr
 
opisska's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Warszawa
Posts: 1,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lowther View Post
http://www.magornitho.org/files/2016...ed-warbler.pdf

Bottom line is this is a very difficult taxon to identify in the field, and in the WP at least the confusion species occurs as non-breeders in the same area.

So in the absence of “unambiguus” evidence of breeding behaviour in Iberia or Morocco as nutcracker suggests you need to weigh up how happy you are to tick something on the balance of probability

James

P.s. getting DNA sequence from a faecal sample should be easy, opisska’s friends may just not be experienced with those types of samples
Oh yeah, I asked them again and it was a misunderstanding. We first talked about observing the number of chromosomes - because on paper it sounds easier. However that can't really be done from poop, because you need multiplying cells for that and those are not well extracted from poop. Then they explained me the procedures and it turned out that DNA sequencing is actually easier end-to-end, but I got somehow stuck on the idea of poop not being good, but that pertains only to chromosome counting.

So I am now discussing with them how I am gonna bring them some poop of Reed Warblers in two weeks from Spain :) The only question is how does one go around collecting that from a specific bird?
__________________
Birds: world 1970, WP 556 (#1 Czech WP birder!*)
Mammals: 236
* and my wife is #3
opisska is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 26th May 2019, 13:08   #54
andyadcock
Registered User
 
andyadcock's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nottingham UK and St Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 14,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lowther View Post
http://www.magornitho.org/files/2016...ed-warbler.pdf

Bottom line is this is a very difficult taxon to identify in the field, and in the WP at least the confusion species occurs as non-breeders in the same area.

So in the absence of “unambiguus” evidence of breeding behaviour in Iberia or Morocco as nutcracker suggests you need to weigh up how happy you are to tick something on the balance of probability

James

P.s. getting DNA sequence from a faecal sample should be easy, opisska’s friends may just not be experienced with those types of samples
I'm curious as to the wing length difference as stated in LBJ's, (post 29) you'd think that would be possible to see?
__________________
Andy A
andyadcock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 26th May 2019, 17:01   #55
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
 
Nutcracker's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 17,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
I'm curious as to the wing length difference as stated in LBJ's, (post 29) you'd think that would be possible to see?
Not by eye, but it might be possible from a set of good quality photos. The photos would need to be very good though, not the options like this usually available
Nutcracker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 27th May 2019, 09:46   #56
Steve Lister
World Birder, ex-County Recorder, Garden Moth-er

 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Loughborough, Leicestershire
Posts: 4,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
I'm curious as to the wing length difference as stated in LBJ's, (post 29) you'd think that would be possible to see?
The ID guide by NVD mentions a primary projection of c60% for what I assume are proper baeticatus (he mentions breeding in Libya but as already mentioned his book pre-dates the ambiguus situation) as opposed to 70-100% for scirpaceus. The difference should be discernible.

Steve
Steve Lister is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 27th May 2019, 12:25   #57
rollie_nl
Roland from Holland

 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands
Posts: 13
These links to papers may be worthwhile to mention:
- http://www.magornitho.org/files/2016...ed-warbler.pdf (also mentioned by James Lowther I just noted)
- https://www.dutchbirding.nl/journal/..._1.pdf#page=33
rollie_nl is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 27th May 2019, 15:02   #58
Ian Lewis
Registered User
 
Ian Lewis's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Poole, Dorset
Posts: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Kangaroo View Post
Please let me know the distinguishing features of the African Reed warbler please as i would not like to tick a bird with no effort.
My understanding is that it has an emarginated 5th primary, which might be visible in a very good photo.

Saw an 'Ambiguous' Reed Warbler singing in Algeria on my recent 'nuthatch twitch', looked a bit shorter winged but sounded the same as Eurasian Reed Warbler.

Ian
__________________
Latest lifer - Algerian Nuthatch (8508 IOC)
Latest UK - White-winged Scoter (499 IOC)
Ian Lewis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 13th June 2019, 09:20   #59
opisska
Jan Ebr
 
opisska's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Warszawa
Posts: 1,080
So, while the greater minds of BF were improving the theoretical understanding of the issue, I went down to Andalusia to bring some practical material to the table. I heard a plenty of Reed Warbler song at two sites: Gudalhorce estuary and Humedal de Padul, but only managed to take reasonable photos of two birds at the second site. KenM was so nice to have a look at those, because at first, I wasn't even sure those are Reed Warblers and he concluded that those fit better as Eurasian - see https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=377695

If this is indeed the case, then even seeing a Reed Warbler in June in Spain isn't really safe for African, so I am probably gonna remove this short-lived entry to my WP list.

edit: I have added another specimen to that thread, which looks better, but I still really don't know. Also, collecting any poop seems really less easy than I thought, now that I have given it a thought while on location, looking into the impossible reeds ...
__________________
Birds: world 1970, WP 556 (#1 Czech WP birder!*)
Mammals: 236
* and my wife is #3

Last edited by opisska : Thursday 13th June 2019 at 18:15.
opisska is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
African/Eurasian reed warbler pietrod Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature 7 Wednesday 10th May 2017 08:45
Seperating Blyth's Reed Warbler and Eurasian Reed Warbler by fore-supercilium wolfbirder Birds & Birding 7 Saturday 20th September 2014 04:28
sub species of African reed warbler. ammadoux Information Wanted 4 Tuesday 15th May 2012 15:48
Is this the African reed warbler? ammadoux Bird Identification Q&A 4 Sunday 22nd August 2010 12:21

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.24594593 seconds with 24 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 02:36.