Nikon SE vs Everything. (1 Viewer)

paddy7 · May 11, 2018

I don't think you should see it as a loss of 30 years of work; the work was there, it served the folks that needed it and those folks remember it. I read something once that said 'the present is gone the moment you notice it,' and i translated that as 'life is a vehicle with no reverse gears.'
What we do now is not what we did then, but is built upon it - your book wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the 30 years, so i suppose it's another angle on the same thing - or something like that. Anyway, this talk of beer has reminded me i should be someplace else, being Friday evening an' all....it's been a dog of a week.

black crow · May 11, 2018

If we are working for ourselves and our personal goals and satisfaction what others do can never affect that. Very few people experience that in fullness. I did the few times when I was self employed. They failed because I was the only one to really see the benefit in what I was offering but I don't regret doing it. The rest was just for a paycheck.

fazalmajid · May 11, 2018

WJC said:
BC:
I did my best to try to get folks to buy the Nikon 6x15, which is MUCH bigger on the inside than the outside with superb optics. I explained that most of todays “opera glasses” could be bested by those of a hundred years ago; it did no good.

I now carry my Zeiss Victory Pocket 8x25 as my EDC binoculars, but I also have the tiny Nikon 7x15, and can confirm they are excellent, even without taking into account their diminutive size (if you take off your glasses, there are some compromises). In contrast, I didn't like the EII one bit. Perhaps it's a reverse porro vs. porro thing.

The design seems to be a ripoff of the 1919 Fata Morgana miniature binoculars, and you can spend all too much time reading on their history:
http://www.miniaturebinoculars.com/

I often get tarred and feathered on binocular forums for being self-serving, condescending, arrogant, and worse. But I would like to comment on those things.

Just how many binocular forums are there, apart from BirdForum and CloudyNights?

WJC · May 11, 2018

fazalmajid said:
I now carry my Zeiss Victory Pocket 8x25 as my EDC binoculars, but I also have the tiny Nikon 7x15, and can confirm they are excellent, even without taking into account their diminutive size (if you take off your glasses, there are some compromises). In contrast, I didn't like the EII one bit. Perhaps it's a reverse porro vs. porro thing.

The design seems to be a ripoff of the 1919 Fata Morgana miniature binoculars, and you can spend all too much time reading on their history:
http://www.miniaturebinoculars.com/

Just how many binocular forums are there, apart from BirdForum and CloudyNights?

There are at least 3 more that I frequent. You might ask the same of Gunut, he came over from OpticsTalk.

Bill

WJC · May 11, 2018

black crow said:
If we are working for ourselves and our personal goals and satisfaction what others do can never affect that. Very few people experience that in fullness. I did the few times when I was self employed. They failed because I was the only one to really see the benefit in what I was offering but I don't regret doing it. The rest was just for a paycheck.

Do something wonderful, people may imitate it——Albert Schweitzer :cat:

Bill

Troubador · May 12, 2018

WJC said:
Do something wonderful, people may imitate it——Albert Schweitzer :cat:

Bill

Thats almost the definition of karma, Bill and this worked for me in business. Going the extra mile to help my customer's business certainly came back to me in the form of extra business and relationships that continue to this day. I am still in touch with my first German customer of 40 years ago as well as some much closer in time.

Lee

edwincjones · May 12, 2018

As I get older, wiser, or maybe just demented
i keep thinking
It does not make any difference,
just use them-and enjoy

edj

black crow · May 12, 2018

edwincjones said:
As I get older, wiser, or maybe just demented
i keep thinking
It does not make any difference,
just use them-and enjoy

edj

Very few people live such a simple philosophy it seems. It's the one that brings the greatest rewards IMO. If it's demented then bring it on and give me more time out in the wild enjoying the views. I think you are correct. It doesn't make any real difference when you add it up. I see some put out a lot of effort to make sure that others know who is in the "know". Seems like a lot of work for no real great reward but we all have differing goals in life so I try not to be too sure my way is the right one or the only one. I just bought some Nikon Aculon 7x35s that cost a staggering $65. I plan to enjoy them just as much in some ways at least as the $4150 reatail price tag that went with the previous two pair I bought. They have a staggering 488ft Fov which I think will make them really a fun pair of binoculars. Not to mention that some think they are quite sharp dead center. I'm not too caught up in having a 100% sweet spot that the EL claims to not enjoy a new pair of binoculars with a wider fov. Coming on Mon. Can't wait. :t::-O

JoeJ · May 12, 2018

black crow said:
I see some put out a lot of effort to make sure that others know who is in the "know".

Being one who is a little challenged in knowledge relative to optics, I feel I benefit greatly from contributors on this forum such as Bill, Lee, Joachim, Gijs and several others and I, for one, appreciate the "effort" put in by these members to better educate myself in attempting to understand - what I really don't understand about certain optical aspects.|;|

I really appreciate Bill's humor and have adopted Bill's reference to "stacking BB's", instead of my saying there's not a nat's ass worth of difference - as it causes the person I'm talking with to wrinkle his eyebrows thinking about that one.:t:

jape · May 12, 2018

all i know about binos is which end to put to my eye and sometimes in my haste to folliw a fleeting silhouette i get that wrong!

it helps being ignorant when reading these threads, i do do it to learn for the 'if ever' day that might come if i find a stash or a golden meteorite lands in my yard. but being ignorant means i can, with respect, be amused by the extremes of pedantic discussion or assertion of knowledge. fortunately most of the genuinely knowledgeable seem to be self-effacing or use humour alongside their obsession.

it does make me realise quite how remarkable human invention is. a bit of curved glass well polished and suddenly wonders are brought to our eyes. i just hope some of the experts actually use the things they pay thousands of dollars for and retain the simpler pleasures at least as much as the more erudite sensibilities they debate!

black crow · May 12, 2018

JoeJ said:
Being one who is a little challenged in knowledge relative to optics, I feel I benefit greatly from contributors on this forum such as Bill, Lee, Joachim, Gijs and several others and I, for one, appreciate the "effort" put in by these members to better educate myself in attempting to understand - what I really don't understand about certain optical aspects.|;|

I really appreciate Bill's humor and have adopted Bill's reference to "stacking BB's", instead of my saying there's not a nat's ass worth of difference - as it causes the person I'm talking with to wrinkle his eyebrows thinking about that one.:t:

You seem to have picked out a group you assume I was referring to and if that's true you'd be wrong. I was referring to no one in particular. Most everyone here has something to contribute and if you consider yourself challenged then it might be good also to assume you can't be sure of who is giving "expert" advice.

perterra · May 13, 2018

Troubador said:
Thats almost the definition of karma, Bill and this worked for me in business. Going the extra mile to help my customer's business certainly came back to me in the form of extra business and relationships that continue to this day. I am still in touch with my first German customer of 40 years ago as well as some much closer in time.

Lee

Just trying to squeeze money out of a customer doesn't drive that kind of relationship. I still get invitations to graduations of kids from customers I havent dealt with in 15 years. They are my friends

JoeJ · May 13, 2018

I might be "challenged" in a lot of ways but as the ole saying goes, if you've "walked the walk" - you can "talk the talk". I will always give those boys my vote of confidence. Some can "talk the talk" but might fall short when attempting to "walk the walk".

wllmspd · May 13, 2018

Good enough vs more better. Avoid the downright cheap/rubbish... will save money in the long term and save stuff ending up in landfill. Every time I put my favourite bins to my eyes it puts a smile on my face.

Peter

WJC · May 13, 2018

perterra said:
Just trying to squeeze money out of a customer doesn't drive that kind of relationship. I still get invitations to graduations of kids from customers I havent dealt with in 15 years. They are my friends

What many retailers don't understand—especially those on commision—is that A GOOD CUSTOMER is much better than A GOOD SALE! And, if they (some at least) cared enough about their profession, the owner of the business could make enough money without having them on commission. :cat:

Bill

JoeJ · May 13, 2018

Totally agree Peter, took me awhile to learn but buying right the 1st time, made me cry only once.|;| I've had buyer's remorse for spending too much but after the finances finally re-stabled, I was a happy camper.

When it comes to optics, meaning rifle scopes, spotting scopes, binoculars and cameras - I possess expensive "wants" but usually make due with less expensive but best affordable quality "need" optics.

Patudo · May 13, 2018

paddy7 said:
I'm just thinking that - if QC is your job, and you have an eye to your own job security, and the pressure companies are under in a fiercely competitive field, and your own professional pride - wouldn't you do it as well as you were capable?

The number of times the Swarovski after-sales is mentioned as a compelling factor for buying its products is a case in point.

To put it baldly, that's part of the reason why Swarovski charge the premium they do. I enjoyed the article this links to: http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/kit-tests/optics/people-power-we-visit-the-swarovski-factory-1-3174643

Patudo · May 13, 2018

wllmspd said:
Sounds fair!
Both the E2 and especially the SE have small AFOV... compared to other old Porros ;-)

PEterW

jring said:
The 8x30E2 is in my opinion a very fun pair with the huge immersive field of old wide angle pairs but without their terribad edge performance.

Joachim

Hi Peter, Joachim - thanks for your comments, which gave me plenty of thought this week. It seems to me the EII's field of view exceeds, albeit not by a great deal, the classic 8x30 porros of the past (Binuxit, Deltrintem, Oberkochen, Nikon A and E, etc), losing out only to the Japanese extra wides, most of which were 7x35 and therefore somewhat "apples and oranges". The only one of the latter type I have direct experience of is the Swift Holiday, but I finally had the chance today to spend some time with it and the Zeiss West 8x30 non-B I own. I'm quite familiar with the latter binocular, having used it a lot last year and again this year since the weather improved. I specifically looked at edge performance after reading Joachm's comments, and to my surprise I found the Swift very similar to the Zeiss West despite having a wider field of view. The image was also brighter (as one would expect, admittedly), significantly more colour neutral, and every bit as sharp on axis if not more so - which reconfirmed my impression from the last time I had used it. I like the 8x30 Oberkochen a lot, so I have to say I was quite impressed with what the Swift can do. Its only negative, to this particular user anyway, is that it cannot focus beyond infinity enough for me to get objects at very long distance as sharp as I need them to be. If this example is representative, it would seem the JB companies learned well the art and science of making a good porro prism binocular from the German engineers they hired as consultants in the 1920s.

Cheers,
patudo

Rathaus · May 13, 2018

Patudo said:
To put it baldly, that's part of the reason why Swarovski charge the premium they do. I enjoyed the article this links to: http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/kit-tests/optics/people-power-we-visit-the-swarovski-factory-1-3174643

I do think that is a myth often spoken about on this site. If not, then where is our same premium money going when we buy Leica and Zeiss? Are you suggesting that Leica and
Zeiss have chosen to invest this premium by creating superior products to Swarovski at the expense of their inferior after sales service? No.

Swarovski quality and performance is at least comparable to any other premium product, quite regardless of their after sales service. I just think of their after sales service as a huge bonus.

perterra · May 14, 2018

paddy7 said:
Being equipped with basic high school physics (and that 40 odd years ago) regarding real, virtual, inverted images and concave/convex lens types, i cannot input towards the technical side of this. However, what i find interesting (and perhaps am on safer ground) is the quantity of the production runs (daily or weekly) of a particular model by the established binocular companies.

Would it be beyond the capability of the QC department to keep tabs on an individual piece? I'm just thinking that - if QC is your job, and you have an eye to your own job security, and the pressure companies are under in a fiercely competitive field, and your own professional pride - wouldn't you do it as well as you were capable? The serial number must have an audit trail, back to the day/time the binocular was produced; if several lemons are returned, there would be some form of internal process within the company to see what went wrong where, surely?
It can't be like being QC for a line of plastic bottles, where thousands may be produced a day..?

Ideally yes, but it kinda depends on how the company is set up departmental wise. If you have a production department and a warranty department that are funded independently they can be at odds. Production can get a little twisted from stopping the line and hurting the production goals when they can dump the cost off on warranty. Bottom line is it hurts the company to let problems get out, but fixing the problem can hurt department bonuses, and it seems many are short term thinkers

Nikon SE vs Everything. (1 Viewer)

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