Check a bird id please (1 Viewer)

christineredgate · Sep 10, 2003

I took this pic this afternoon,but the birds were about half a mile away across the water.I think it is a juvenile Black tailed Godwit,the smaller ones of course are redshanks
Christine.

christineredgate · Sep 10, 2003

a second one just to be sure

here is a second one .they aren't very clear
Christine

Gordon · Sep 10, 2003

Hi there,

I think its an adult. I think that the colour of the upper neck is too chestnutty for a juvenile. They have a lighter rufous wash which extends all the way down from under the chin onto the belly and flanks. The bird in your picture seems also to be showing quite a lot of grey on the coverts which, again, I think is indicative of an adult bird.

I could be wrong as I'm no expert but I just happen to have been struggling with this problem over the past week or so after watching a number of groups of this species passing through a local wet patch that I watch. I have been looking through various ID books just before I came online.

regards
Gordon

christineredgate · Sep 10, 2003

Gordon,thanks i was getting worried as i could see that people had viewed the pic,but no one had replied,but it is definitely a black tailed godwit is it.I think i have another pic of three together with their side feathers on view,I'll have a look.I have put one in the gallery but put it in Birds as opposed tom digiscoping.
Thanks,Christine.

Michael Frankis · Sep 10, 2003

I'd agree with adult Blackwit. Juveniles are more uniformly buffy all over and more 'cleanly' scalloped on the mantle & coverts.

Michael

christineredgate · Sep 10, 2003

Thanks,Michael,I was hoping that either yourself or Stephen Dunstan would take a look.I won.t bother with the other pic now,
Thanks again,Christine.

logos · Sep 10, 2003

Hi Christine,

It is a juvenile actually, it looks so bright on the breast because it is of the Icelandic race.

Spud

christineredgate · Sep 10, 2003

Are you sure Spud,I did give it a highlight in photo shop
Christine

christineredgate · Sep 10, 2003

last of the id pics

here is a group of three where their side plumage is more easily visible,
Christine.

midas · Sep 10, 2003

without a doubt a juv black tailed godwit

logos · Sep 10, 2003

Key features making it a juv are the consistently fresh plumage with all scapulars showing even dark centres (adults have a variable number of dark patterned scaps which appear patchily distributed and have bold pale internal bars, never look evenly spotted like this bird), wing coverts look fresh with neat pale fringes except for the innermost greater and median coverts which have dark subterminal marks, tertials a similar pattern to the inermost coverts only pattern a little more extensive. On adult the coverts and tertials are either winter patterned (plain grey) or a few show a bold summer pattern of cinnamon and black bars but these are irregularly distributed.

Any adult that still had so much rufous on the neck would still show some barring on the belly.

100% sure

Spud

Stephen Dunstan · Sep 10, 2003

Christine,

My ears were burning!

Was this at Hodbarrow? I dropped in there a couple of weeks back and there were half a dozen blackwits.

Regards,

Stephen.

christineredgate · Sep 10, 2003

Yes Stephen it was this afternoon,do you think it is a juvenile?.I must say this thread is much more interesting than the chat room where i dropped in a couple of mins ago.Anyway it looks as though my bird ID skills are picking up!!,
Christine.
Stephen next time you come over to hodbarrow let me know,i could learn a lot from your expertise.
Christine.

Michael Frankis · Sep 10, 2003

logos said:
Key features making it a juv are the consistently fresh plumage with all scapulars showing even dark centres (adults have a variable number of dark patterned scaps which appear patchily distributed and have bold pale internal bars, never look evenly spotted like this bird), wing coverts look fresh with neat pale fringes except for the innermost greater and median coverts which have dark subterminal marks, tertials a similar pattern to the inermost coverts only pattern a little more extensive. On adult the coverts and tertials are either winter patterned (plain grey) or a few show a bold summer pattern of cinnamon and black bars but these are irregularly distributed.

Any adult that still had so much rufous on the neck would still show some barring on the belly.

Hi Spud,
Accepted I was wrong in saying adult, but that first bird to me didn't look at all consistently fresh or evenly spotted - looks to me as though there's several mantle feathers and one or two tertials & greater coverts moulted out and missing, and almost completely plain grey median & lesser coverts with hardly any fringing. A lot less neat & tidy than the right hand bird in the 3rd photo, which is an obvious juvenile. Also wouldn't a juv usually show less contrast between the whitish face and orange-buff neck? That's what made me think adult.

Michael

christineredgate · Sep 10, 2003

So does one deduct from this discussion that it is a juvenile Godwit.It is all very technical,and far beyond me,but thankyou all for your comments,but Michael,please could you please think more kindly towards "moggies"
Christine,

christineredgate · Sep 10, 2003

Thanks,Midas,i looked up in my bird book when I came home and also on my bird online books,but was not really sure and in actual fact was making a guess that it was a Juvenile.Of course it is possible that adults were there with the young.
Christine.

Stephen Dunstan · Sep 11, 2003

Christine,

To answer your question to me I would go for an Icelandic race juv., bear in mind several hundred and even thousands will pass Hodbarrow en route to winter down here on the Ribble.

Only the weekend before last I got into a discussion about this regarding a bird at Pilling Marsh, which I immediately called as a juv and the person with me queried. So it isn't that straightforward.

Regards,

Stephen.

logos · Sep 11, 2003

By mid-September adults are already in winter plumage or are very well advanced in post breeding moult. They therefore either look uniformly greyish or mostly plain greyish with a few scruffy remnants of summer plumage. Juveniles are much fresher and neater looking and few show any extensive plain grey first-winter mantle and scaps much before October. Ageing becomes difficult after December when the characteristically patterned juvenile upperparts have been replaced and any retained juvenile feathers have worn and faded and lost their pristine and delicately patterned appearance.

Only Icelandic race juvs show such rich orange tones on the underparts and therefore superficially resemble breeding adults, juveniles of other races have duller buff necks etc...

Anything that doesn't look plain grey or scruffy in autumn is a juv.

Spud

HH75 · Sep 11, 2003

Hi all,
I too was thinking juv.Black-tailed Godwit,and was surprised when Michael said otherwise,but seeing as how it's an Icelandic bird then everything makes sense:we get Icelandic birds almost exclusively here,and thus the bird just looked like an "ordinary" juv.to me!
Harry H

Michael Frankis · Sep 11, 2003

Yeah, the ones I see over here are nearly all European race, the Icelandic ones are a lot scarcer, odd ones mainly on spring passage. They obviously stick pretty closely to the west coast.

And I still plead that this bird (in the first photo) looks scruffy, not as neat as I'd have expected a juvenile to be. Guess it has already started its moult into first winter.

Michael

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