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Bird of prey, Bulgaria

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Old Tuesday 15th May 2018, 17:03   #1
petar1
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Bird of prey, Bulgaria

Hi,

What could be the bird of prey based on the silhouette?

Location -> Bulgaria, 14 May 2018

Thank you,
Petar
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Old Tuesday 15th May 2018, 18:27   #2
Valéry Schollaert
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I'd say Pallid (my first choice) or Montagu's Harrier, juvenile.
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Old Tuesday 15th May 2018, 19:39   #3
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I would have said them same as Valéry except for the juv. bit
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Old Wednesday 16th May 2018, 10:30   #4
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I would have said them same as Valéry except for the juv. bit
I think the longer secondaries are showing a juvenile, but the blurry can be misleading of course.
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Old Wednesday 16th May 2018, 13:07   #5
lou salomon
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tail is a bit short for a harrier, isn't it? maybe honey buzzard.
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Old Wednesday 16th May 2018, 14:53   #6
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tail is a bit short for a harrier, isn't it? maybe honey buzzard.
Wings surely too broad for Montagu's/Pallid, even a juv?

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Old Wednesday 16th May 2018, 15:28   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou salomon View Post
tail is a bit short for a harrier, isn't it? maybe honey buzzard.


Looking that way......
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Old Wednesday 16th May 2018, 16:17   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou salomon View Post
tail is a bit short for a harrier, isn't it? maybe honey buzzard.
I find it remarkable that people comment on such shots, especially with such detailed analysis.

We've had specific ageing and species ID by a couple of people and now even the genus is in question, kind of proves my point?

A
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Old Wednesday 16th May 2018, 17:33   #9
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To be fair Andy, folk were simply saying what their impression was, their first guess, nobody's saying its something for sure.

Your comment would be fair enough if folk had said "its a whatever" for sure

Anyway FWIW, thanks to more power of suggestion from Lou, I can see this being a HB now
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Old Wednesday 16th May 2018, 17:44   #10
Valéry Schollaert
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Looking that way......
Well, all is different in shape, look.

Rounded wing tips vs pointed wing
Straight trailing edge vs bulging secondaries
Shortish tail with proportioned width vs long and narrow tail
Carpal joint gently curved vs sharp
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Old Wednesday 16th May 2018, 18:00   #11
lou salomon
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Anyway FWIW, thanks to more power of suggestion from Lou, I can see this being a HB now
...or something else not being a harrier . true is, gliding raptors can be very similar and such pics extremely deceiving (--> those recent blurred shots from turkey...)
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Old Wednesday 16th May 2018, 19:59   #12
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Well, all is different in shape, look.

Rounded wing tips vs pointed wing
Straight trailing edge vs bulging secondaries
Shortish tail with proportioned width vs long and narrow tail
Carpal joint gently curved vs sharp
These are rarely afforded such'' pointy'' wings either for the 1st image.

With such a ''short tail'' on the 2nd image...not to mention the less than pointy wings.

''Variable'' wing geometry is the name of the game with BOP's, as you must well know Valery.
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Old Wednesday 16th May 2018, 23:01   #13
Valéry Schollaert
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...or something else not being a harrier . true is, gliding raptors can be very similar and such pics extremely deceiving (--> those recent blurred shots from turkey...)
Lol, but still it is a harrier, I don't see why you have any doubt.
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Old Friday 18th May 2018, 18:28   #14
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I think it's an Osprey. They frequently look long- and thin-tailed in regular flight. The length of the wings is quite normal too (with the characteristic 'kink' halfway).
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Old Friday 18th May 2018, 19:40   #15
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Originally Posted by KenM View Post
These are rarely afforded such'' pointy'' wings either for the 1st image.

With such a ''short tail'' on the 2nd image...not to mention the less than pointy wings.

''Variable'' wing geometry is the name of the game with BOP's, as you must well know Valery.
Your bird is soaring, op bird is gliding...
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Old Friday 18th May 2018, 19:42   #16
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Originally Posted by KenM View Post

With such a ''short tail'' on the 2nd image...not to mention the less than pointy wings.
Tail is as long as wing width at base, which is perfect for a juvenile harrier (that has typical bulging secondaries).

We are not talking about simple "impression" of feeling, but measurable characteristics.
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Old Friday 18th May 2018, 21:06   #17
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Compare the Osprey in this thread from 2016. In my view this is quite clearly an Osprey. I've never seen any Harrier showing that mid-wing kink:

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=331700
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Old Friday 18th May 2018, 21:56   #18
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Just proves my point, shots of such poor quality are a waste of time



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Old Saturday 19th May 2018, 06:06   #19
Valéry Schollaert
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Just proves my point, shots of such poor quality are a waste of time



A
It proves that, while many Birdforum members are excellent to analyse the plumage, there is a weakness in bird silhouette identification in the forum. In the field, experienced birders would agree on at least harrier sp.
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Old Saturday 19th May 2018, 10:17   #20
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Originally Posted by Valéry Schollaert View Post
It proves that, while many Birdforum members are excellent to analyse the plumage, there is a weakness in bird silhouette identification in the forum. In the field, experienced birders would agree on at least harrier sp.
Or a Honey Buzzard or an Osprey



A
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Old Saturday 19th May 2018, 10:54   #21
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Or a Honey Buzzard or an Osprey



A
Definitely not, very far from those.
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Old Saturday 19th May 2018, 13:07   #22
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Originally Posted by Valéry Schollaert View Post
It proves that, while many Birdforum members are excellent to analyse the plumage, there is a weakness in bird silhouette identification in the forum. In the field, experienced birders would agree on at least harrier sp.
Maybe we all need a little more practice - I vote for no.14

https://www.birdinginspain.com/image...ilhouettes.png
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Old Saturday 19th May 2018, 14:57   #23
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It proves that, while many Birdforum members are excellent to analyse the plumage, there is a weakness in bird silhouette identification in the forum. In the field, experienced birders would agree on at least harrier sp.
Either that or some people are as good as they think they are.

Everyone has a weakness when it comes to shots like this and some people seem reluctant or unable, to just say 'sorry, the picture isn't good enough'.

I've said so many times that the eagerness to comment on such shots, just encourages people to post worse and worse images, they ask for a miracle sometimes and they know it but still they post.


A

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Old Saturday 19th May 2018, 16:45   #24
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Definitely not, very far from those.
Can we play spot the difference with the middle image in this post and the middle image from this post?
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=361788

Ian
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Old Saturday 19th May 2018, 16:58   #25
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Can we play spot the difference with the middle image in this post and the middle image from this post?
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=361788

Ian
The wings are broader, shorter and less pointed. Apart from that quite similar.
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