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Eagle Owls in Britain, Scientific Paper by The World Owl Trust (1 Viewer)

Eagle Owl persecution

Amarillo said:
some latest news...

http://raptorpolitics.org.uk/?p=1069
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" ~ difficult to explain why a breeding female Eagle Owl, having laid her first egg, would so suddenly choose to desert both her nesting site and lifelong partner. Maybe the gamekeepers who use the nearby track can shed some light on the matter ... local keepers give short shrift to most breeding raptors they come across ..."

there you have it in a nut shell - the Victorian gamekeepers with their shotguns wiped out the native Eagle Owl population and their ilk are still at it.

Please watch out for these magnificent birds and great thanks to all the kind people who have been doing so!

Ric
 
Richard Klim said:
http://www.birdwatch.co.uk/channel/newsitem.asp?c=11&cate=__9095
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The biggest threat to the Hen Harriers extinction in Great Britain, (not just in England) is the unrestricted persecution and premeditated murder by gamekeepers etc. How can anybody talk about removing natural predators such as Eagle Owls when we can't even remove unnatural predators such as keepers. Remove the keepers first then we'll see what effect natural predation has on any of our Raptor species, but then I suppose the majority of us know the answer to that already.

Dr Tom Tew, Chief Scientist for Natural England, said: “Eagle Owls – a non-native species
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I would like to know how he justifies that statement, and in any case, what's that got to do with it, there are many non native species in the UK, they all get along just fine. Eagle Owls in Europe and Scandinavia manage to live alongside the native species in those areas without any detrimental effect on the populations, and they are in far larger numbers than they are in this country.

nirofo.
 
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ignorance!

Ironically in terms of 'chief scientists' we are looking at ignorance and cultural bias which is why the Eagle Owl became extinct in this country in the first place. I chanced upon an article in the Wiltshire Archaeological & Natural History Magazine (vol 18) 1877 on what the author calls "Bubo Maximus, The Eagle Owl" ~

"This bird seems naturally to head the list, being the largest and most powerful ... There is an authentically recorded capture of one of these fine birds on Handley Common, on the borders of this county [Wiltshire]. This bird was captured alive and kept for some time by a Mr King of Alvediston ... concerning it: 'In reference to the Eagle Owl - I had a very beautiful one ... about the year 1853 or 1854 ... [but] Mr King thought it must have escaped from some menagerie'. I would remark that this is the immediate and somewhat natural conclusion concerning every very rare bird which is captured amongst us. But let us remember it does not, of necessity, always follow that it is the right conclusion to draw".

Colour for emphasis mine.
 
Adam W said:
Really? I think quite a few people would beg to differ about Mink, Signal Crayfish and Grey Squirrel to name but three.
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OK, I'll give you those 3, but we do know for definite that none of the 3 were ever native to this country. On the other hand, it's more than probable that the Eagle Owl was and is native to this country.

nirofo.
 
Agree with Nirofo. The Eagle Owl is not a non native species anyway so the argument does not apply. I have had similar differences of opinion about the reindeer remains in Scotland which go back thousands of years. Britain was part of Continental Europe before the North Sea formed after the last great Ice Age. The Eagle Owl belongs here, it was here before the 'chief scientist' was here and has the perfect right to be here, unmolested and free. Reindeer have now been reintroduced into the Highlands and are apparently thriving. What's the problem?
 
nirofo said:
OK, I'll give you those 3, but we do know for definite that none of the 3 were ever native to this country. On the other hand, it's more than probable that the Eagle Owl was and is native to this country.

nirofo.
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It should also be remembered that something could once have been native but when the entire landscape was very different so It cant be automatically assumed that they will just fit in nicley again just because they once did.

I'm not automatically against re-introduction at all, I had the pleasure of seeing my first WT Eagle last week and it was one of my most memorable birding experiences and I'm sure Eagle Owls would be equally impressive but if it was to come to a situation where we had to choose then personally I'd rather secure the future of Hen Harriers than the possibly once native Eagle Owls.
 
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Adam W said:
It should also be remembered that something could once have been native but when the entire landscape was very different so It cant be automatically assumed that they will just fit in nicley again just because they once did.

I'm not automatically against re-introduction at all, I had the pleasure of seeing my first WT Eagle last week and it was one of my most memorable birding experiences and I'm sure Eagle Owls would be equally impressive but if it was to come to a situation where we had to choose then personally I'd rather secure the future of Hen Harriers than the possibly once native Eagle Owls.
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I agree we have to secure the future of Hen Harriers in this country, unfortunately the only way this will ever happen is if the relentless persecution by gamekeepers and others is brought to a full stop. I have seen year after year of poisonings, shootings and trapping of Hen Harriers and other fine Raptors, it's as bad now as I can ever remember. This is just so that some blood thirsty so-called sportman with a shotgun can bang away at the few remaining Red Grouse on the moors, yes the grouse are in serious decline also, but not through the fault of the Harriers as the keepers would have you believe. I personally have seen many times, where the persecution has stopped the Raptor breeding success increases. I saw on one estate where Golden Eagles failed every year for nearly 20 years , that is until the gamekeeper died and the estate didn't replace him, that was 15 years ago. Since then the Eagles have successfully fledged at least one young per year, sometimes two, they have failed only twice during this time and that was through natural causes. There are many other areas in the north of Scotland where Hen Harriers, Peregrines, Eagles and Buzzards are severely persecuted, even though the estates involved are not Grouse moors. No, blaming the problem of the Hen Harrier decline on natural predators like Eagle Owls just doesn't cut it, anybody who has any real experience working with Raptors will know this. Until the people responsible for ensuring the law regarding wildlife persecution is upheld and they stop sitting on their fat cosy arses doing nothing, then I'm afraid the decline will continue and it won't matter whether you cull the Eagle Owls or not.

nirofo.
 
Well yes i agree that obviously Eagle Owls arent the main problem and keepers are but as for the rest well I think we've been here before so dont think there's much point in starting it all over again.
 
if this argument has been brought up and crushed already, I apologise, but could they not be ship-assisted? They breed in the Baltic, and there are ships moving between here and the East Coast. This may also explain the breeding pairs being mostly along the East Coast, surely crossing the channel at it's narrowest point would mean pairs breeding in Kent and Sussex is more likely??

again, sorry if someone has mentioned this.

but I believe a ship-assisted bird is a wild bird, or do we just to that for Yank's?
 
Adam W said:
It should also be remembered that something could once have been native but when the entire landscape was very different so It cant be automatically assumed that they will just fit in nicley again just because they once did.
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What's changed is that we arrived. Do we not have a duty to restore the balance in nature we have so decidedly unbalanced?

Eagle Owls will take out other raptors in their territory, that is their nature and it is part of the balance nature imposes. Beyond their territory smaller raptors hold sway.

We need to learn to live with nature, not against it. Our culture is at war with nature: look at the gamekeepers and their fanatical persecution of raptors and the crow family. It's also a matter of education. Until we understand that we are also a part of nature and not 'apart' from it, the folly will continue.

Threads and forums like this keep the issue alive - and more power to that!
 
kr236rk said:
Do we not have a duty to restore the balance in nature we have so decidedly unbalanced?

look at the gamekeepers and their fanatical persecution of raptors and the crow family.
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I'm a little confused, I couldnt agree more that we are the problem and therefore have a duty to restore the balance but is that not where things like controlling Corvids comes in?

If as it seems you dont agree with controlling any predators what did you actually mean by our duty to restore the balance?

If you consider us to be part of nature and no different to any other animal(which i wont disagree with as such) then how does that make us killing another predator to benifit ourselves(killing Crows to produce more Pheasants for example) any different the an Eagle Owl doing the same to its rival predators? and if we are part of nature doesnt that then mean that whatever we do is then natural so part of natures balance not interfereing with it?
 
Im not leaving myself open nirofo, but im not impressed to say the least. Pointless to you maybe, but I know whats gone on, and im not loading the bullets, but hope them two see what they've manufactured. No doubt deny it though. Very pissed off.
 
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