Any idea for strange crow behaviour? (1 Viewer)

I was out in the back garden seeing to my ducks and I could hear some crows yabbering. I didn't pay any attention because it is nothing unusual here, but it continued off and on, and for some reason, it sounded different than usual.
When I got back to the house I turned around to have a look. On my neighbours roof there were two crows nestled into the bottom of her chimeny stack. It looked odd - they are usually on top of the chimeny or in the middle of the roof. So I kept watching.
I could see that one was hunkered down nestled down right into the corner. The other was stomping on it and pecking. I was concerned that the hunkered down one was caught and being bullied by the other, so I got out my binoculars to get a better veiw.
I was getting a butt veiw of them, and I couldn't tell if it was trapped or not. The other one kept stamping on the others back with one foot - sometimes holding it there asive holding it down to dominate it. They both gave the occational pecks. It seemed to me that bullying or mating behaviour was happening, but it can't be mating behaviour because of the time of year -Autumn/fall.
Eventually the dominant crow backed off enough for the other one to stand up and I could see it wasn't trapped by anything at all. And it didn't fly off to get away from the bully either. Quite the opposite in fact, it went up to it and hunkered down again in a submissive posture and the other crow stamped on it!
Ok, so now I could see what was happening I paid more attention to the birds themselves and the dominant bird was a carrion crow and ofcaurse that's what I expected the other to be too, but when it turned around I saw that it was actually a Jackdaw! The CC jumped up onto the chimeny and the J followed! They squabbled as before and then the CC flew off..... and the Jackdaw followed!
I am absolutely flabbergasted! The Jackdaw was behaving like it was in love with the crow!
Not only is this the wrong time of year for birdie love, these were different species!
I have never heard of this at all. Have I read everything wrong? What WAS going on? Has anyone here heard or seen anything like this before?

Sorry for the ramble, but I am just really supprised and confused!!!

That's really strange! Unfortunately I can't help you, but I've seen something strange as well, albeit with a different corvid involved.

We took in a baby carrion crow who fell from the nest back in May, and it's been with us since then, taking the occasional walk outside every now and then (well, actually the occasional jump down&walk outside, since we live on the 1st floor and the bird is on our balcony). In the area there are also some magpies, and they had chicks near us this spring, so there are 4 youngsters who formed a "gang" and fly/hop around, being loud as usual. The magpies were apparently interested in the crow, and a brave one flew to our balcony to check him/her out. Thing is, none of them (crow or magpies) seems afraid, but curious and interested. Our crow is totally interested in them too, and when they meet on the grass outside, they check each other out carefully, hopping around each other. Nothing aggressive or territorial there, it seems more like they want a play mate, or that the magpies are trying to make our crow join their gang. I know that adult birds often steal each other's eggs/chicks, so this behaviour strikes me as odd. Could corvids socialize between species?

These are the sorts of observations that fascinate me. They rarely produce definitive answers but the speculation is interesting.

We should always remember to allow for individual idiosyncrasies though. There is no reason to suspect that there would be any fewer eccentrics among other creatures than there are among BF members.

Quite amazing to read and certainly very interesting. Keep an eye out 2cay2 and see if there are any further developments. As Rozinante says there are bond to be individual idiosyncrasies in the Bird world, BF members too.....except me of course!

Thanks for relating the tale to us and no, you didn't ramble, it's no good only telling half the tale after all.

Sue.

In my 38 years of birdwatching I have encountered so-called " crow trials " on two occasions only, so it's a rare spectacle. Both occasions were intraspecific, between Carrion Crows, and very similar. A large flock of, say, 40 Carrion Crows had singled out an individual Carrion Crow, and were bullying him while on the ground. As I watched, several crows took turns in bullying the victim, who was crouching in a submissive posture on the ground. The other crows had formed a circle around it and stood calling very noisily, all of the time, while several crows attacked it in turns, pecking it and stamping it on its back. The victim did not intend to flee, but stayed in its submissive position, crying out heartbreakingly. The mayhem was terrible.
It looked as if one individual was being punished by the rest, hence the name "crow trial ". It left me puzzled, there was no difference in appearance between the victim and the others, but the punishment went on for about 15 minutes, and then stopped quite suddenly. The victim was left alone while the whole group flew off, and it flew off with no apparent damage in an other direction.

I have never been able to find an explanation for this behaviour. Other birders couldn't explain it either. Both appeared in autumn, but I do not recall in which years.

Between Carrion Crow and Jackdaw is even more puzzling, I think you witnessed something few if any of us have ever seen. Would certainly like to hear what triggers this behaviour.

Greetings, Ronald

I have seen a similar thing as Ronald in the field opposite our home. I sat with the binoculars watching for ages, amazed at what was going on espicially as the crow who was being bullied flew off with no injury's.
In my gallery I have a photo of a magpie being bullied, I managed to get quite a few photo s but unfortunately they are grossly underexposed.
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/112362/ppuser/7407

Thanks Ronald and Christine,

What you're both referring to is what's commonly called "A murder of Crows" where they all dish out punishment to one that has 'offended' another, so I wonder if, even on this terribly small scale, that's what was going on between the 2 that 2cay2 witnessed.

I know a few years ago another Birder witnessed the same thing (multiple) by a reservoir where one Crow was repeatedly bullied by the rest until it had no escape other than to go into the reservoir. The Birder watched it all and in the end they kept on swooping at it and pushing until it went underwater! That was kept up for just a little longer until the punishment was meted out with the poor Crow obviously drowned.

I wonder what on earth it had done to be treated in such a vicious way. I don't know what time of year it was, but maybe it had mated with another Crows mate?! Nature! Cruel at times (to our way of thinking), but makes you wonder and never fails to amaze.

Sue

Interesting observation

Pet crows kick their handlers in the head when they want to play rough. It usually goes with a few pecks and growling as is the case with crows playing with each other in such famous crow games as keep away and your it.

Still , what you saw sounds like domination with threats of bodily harm for retaliation . It is possible however that the two have known each other a very long time and are in fact friends.

I know a crow that plays with a magpie , feeds her , gives her toys etc. It happens from time to time I guess.

Only on several occasions have I seen full grown corvids kill their own. It is very rare and gives the appearance to involve the endangerment of another family member via negligence or outright defiance of a given safety protocol that affects the health of all involved in the mobbing.

With a breach of trust involving breeding all hell can break loose as well however I have only seen it result in a group mobbing and murder once and that was with a family of ravens in the spring fighting off a persistent newbie that would not back down the challenge.

To see a raven kill a invading magpie in the ravens nesting territory happens but not to common. When it does happen the wind is generally blowing fairly hard and the raven uses that advantage for the drop and snap the neck attack while the pie is on a food item.

I have seen many more large gatherings for funerals of loved ones then murders. It is a solbering sight to any one that doubts their emotional levels.

I would love to know what was at play with what you saw. We do not have Jackdaws and carrion crows where I live so to figure it out by gauging it with our local covids behaviors may not work at all.

"Sorry for the ramble, but I am just really supprised and confused!!!"


All part of displaced suborditate trying to establish or infiltrate into new territory also territorial guarding and resourse guarding by dominant established bird(s).

Regards

Malky