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Even more reach (1 Viewer)

F

fenboy1969

Registered User
Hi. I purchased a nikkor 300mm f2.8 last year and the mk111 2x converter to pair with it. On my D300s this gives me an equivalent focal length of 900mm. As stunning as this combo is, like many others I'm sure, I still feel I need more reach for the kind of photography I do (most things I see are really distant!). I'm undecided between a nikkor 600mm or a sigma 300-800 at the moment. I also guess I could buy one of the new high mp bodies like the D800 and crop further. Any recommendations on how you prefer to go about getting maximum reach would be very welcome thanks.
 
One off-the-wall suggestion is a V1 or V2 body, with the FT1 CX to FX adapter. The V1's are being blown out right now for less than half their original price, and I think it's a great value.

Not much in the way of MPixels, and the AF functionality is somewhat limited, but for perched birds, you'll have some serious reach.

You can also keep the V1 or V2 with a normal lens attached when you're not using it on your bird rig, for 'location' type shots, like having a super point and shoot on hand.
 
I have just gone for a V1 plus FT-1 to ramp up my 300mm f4 plus TC x 1.4

Have a look at Rich's flickr site ..........great images - I'll post the link in a minute - to see what the V1 and the (D800) can do




Here are the links to his site

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon_birder/
D800Sethttp://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon...7629726734905/
V1Sethttp://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon...7628774050455/
 
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and me to ,so far results from the v1 setup look promising check out my flickr stream for todays test shots ,its a steal at the price and the quality far outweighs its tiny size does what it says on the tin .
 
Chasing after more reach is a fools game. You will never have enough. The kit you have now is about as good as it gets optically so I assume you want better pics. You are not going to get great pics by standing off. You need to be in closer. Getting better with you fieldcraft is free. Better to spend your pennies on items that allow you to get within 40m of your target. Camo netting, gillie suit, or a pop-up blind.
 
the black fox said:
and me to ,so far results from the v1 setup look promising check out my flickr stream for todays test shots ,its a steal at the price and the quality far outweighs its tiny size does what it says on the tin .
Click to expand...

thanks for bringing your marvellous flickr images to my attention ..... I really enjoyed looking through them

fenboy ..... The D300 = 12mp ........ D7000 = 16 mp, maybe when they release it the new Nikon DX cam will be 25mp ....... getting as "many pixels" onto the image as possible will help especially in big cropped images
 
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All good info there thanks. I do have a V1 and adaptor but after spending days out with it and the slr I find most of the keepers are from the slr. My fieldcraft is pretty good but often there is no way of getting any closer to my subjects due to rivers and ditches etc. Maybe more mp is the way to go.... Hmmmm
 
RJM said:
Chasing after more reach is a fools game. You will never have enough. The kit you have now is about as good as it gets optically so I assume you want better pics. You are not going to get great pics by standing off. You need to be in closer. Getting better with you fieldcraft is free. Better to spend your pennies on items that allow you to get within 40m of your target. Camo netting, gillie suit, or a pop-up blind.
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree that getting closer to the subject where possible is the best solution, it's not always possible because of both physical obstacles and the fear of disturbance.
More reach will to a certain extent overcome some of those problems, however, the financial cost is there for all to see but if you can afford it, get a 600mm f4.
I wouldn't sell your 300mm though because reach alone is not the answer. A big lens is far less portable, has to be tripod mounted or at least rested on something and the field of vision is considerably reduced so finding the subject quickly is much more difficult. Flight shots are very difficult unless its slow moving or about to land on a perch.
There is also the added expense of new tripod, tripod head, bag, lens foot etc to think about too.
In my opinion extra MP's are not the answer either. The more you crop the less detail you have. The D800 looses much of it's advantage over the D300s because of it's FX body.
So, if you can afford a 600mm buy one but don't expect miracles. At the end of the day, finding good locations to shoot from might provide just as much satisfaction and save you a fortune.
Patience is a virtue as they say, the more time you put in the greater the chances and sooner or later that lucky break might bring that action shot right in front of you but, heaven forbid,you might even find it's too close to focus on with a big lens.
Good luck in your decision,Dave
 
600mm on a crop body is about as good as it gets. Increasing Mpix's is ok, but I can tell you that long lens technique becomes vitally important, When I went from D90 to D7000 I really had to sharpen up my skills, results however are fantastic.

Remember to autofocus fine tune, specially with the converter on, it makes a massive difference.

Regards
 
If a lot of your subjects are "really distant" then maybe you should consider digiscoping. The new scopes , especially Kowa 88mm and Swarovski STX 95 mm will give you a range of 1000 - 4000 mm . Kowa even have an 850/9.6 manual focus lens which will work well with any mount but a Micro Four Thirds camera will give you 2x on this.
Otherwise get a Nikon 500/4 or 600/4 and you won't be sorry.
Neil.
 
fenboy1969 said:
Hi. I purchased a nikkor 300mm f2.8 last year and the mk111 2x converter to pair with it. On my D300s this gives me an equivalent focal length of 900mm. As stunning as this combo is, like many others I'm sure, I still feel I need more reach for the kind of photography I do (most things I see are really distant!). I'm undecided between a nikkor 600mm or a sigma 300-800 at the moment. I also guess I could buy one of the new high mp bodies like the D800 and crop further. Any recommendations on how you prefer to go about getting maximum reach would be very welcome thanks.
Click to expand...
I agree with the other posters. Getting closer is always best. Whenever i go to Norfolk I try to find another place that i can photograph birds either from the car or less than 100 yards from it. It can be done for many birds.

Having said that I posted a similar question to you after I bought my 300mm f2.8 and 2TCEIII and not long after got a 500mm f4 and then a D800. I also have a V1.

The problem is that these long lenses are heavy and more so with tripods and wimberleys. I decided i couldn't carry more than a 500mm f4 and monopod and even then there are many occasions when I go with a 300mm f2.8+/- TC's and sometimes all I want to carry is a V1 and 300mm f4 lens

The problem is that resolution falls off exponentially with distance so extra focal length only buys a little more reach. By and large I am happy to have 500mm DX equivalent reach and don't yearn for more, though I have now found that the 300 f2.8 with the 2TCEIII at f7.1 on a D800 is very good indeed.

Digiscoping will get more range if atmospheric effects don't mess it up but it is a skill I have tried to develop and signally failed. Neil's images with scopes are excellent. Ask him kindly and he may give us all lessons.

Jeff's (Black fox) combination of getting close, good kit and meticulous technique regularly results in outstanding images that seem to have been taken much further away.

Good luck with your journey.
 
Consider renting a lens before buying it to verify that it is exactly what you want. A 600mm f4 provides more image magnification but at a great cost in mobility. A 500mm f4 provides less magnification but can be used from a kayak and carried around in the field with only a monopod needed for support.

I have use a 600mm for bird photography and it was very restrive and once you add a teleconverter it becomes a f5.6 to f8 lens. Fortunately we can get away with much higher ISO settings which are an offset to a degree.

I use a 200-400 f4 as the zoom feature is great when shooting from a blind. As birds move closer or further away I only need to adjust the zoom. With a couple of teleconverters I can have anywhere from 200mm to 800mm. The Nikon is a constant f4 at all focal lengths. I would check with a 300-800mm zoom what the effective aperture value is at the full 800mm zoom. If it is f6.3 then adding a 2x TC will make the lens almost unusable at

Don't mistake increased "reach" for increased image magnification. The bird will be the same size with either a FX or DX camera, only cropped more in advance by the DX camera. The only way to get increased image maginification is with a longer focal length lens or by adding a teleconverter.
 
I have enjoyed using the D800 with my various Nikon lenses as it gives equivalent double the magnification over my D3s. Goes great with the 300/2.8 + 2x, 300/4 + 1.4x or the 500/4 + 1.4x
For stills photography in average to poor light this is about as much as you need. Most of my digiscoping is video these days as light quality out here is rubbish.
Neil.
 
RMWD said:
I agree with the other posters. Getting closer is always best.

The problem is that these long lenses are heavy and more so with tripods and wimberleys. I decided i couldn't carry more than a 500mm f4 and monopod and even then there are many occasions when I go with a 300mm f2.8+/- TC's and sometimes all I want to carry is a V1 and 300mm f4 lens

The problem is that resolution falls off exponentially with distance so extra focal length only buys a little more reach.

Digiscoping will get more range if atmospheric effects don't mess it up but it is a skill I have tried to develop and signally failed.
Click to expand...

Some very pertinent facts above.

1. Unless you live in a remarkably pollution/humidity free environment then atmospheric conditions are going to kill the IQ straight out of the box when shooting at long distances.

2. Some of the guys I have shot with are using 600 and 800mm Nikon/Canon lenses. The difference is in the improved detail and faster AF over my Sigma 500mm, not so much the reach as the difference between 500 and 600 is barely perceptible. Easier to use TCs on those lenses too ... but then see 1. above.

3. These guys almost never move more than 10m from their chosen location ! I can walk 10kms a day with the 500 and a mono/gimbal rig. This is of course personal preference too. Quality over quantity, unless I get very lucky !

4. I've seen some superb shots from digiscoping and now using cameras such as the V1/2 and Pentax Q on prime lenses (though the keeper rate is very very low - atmospheric conditions playing an even more important role than with DSLRs). However you need a very stable tripod and time to set up, find your target (usually using a rifle scope) and use live-view to finesse focus. That's too much time for most of the birds I shoot.

To get those detailed jaw dropping shots I'm afraid it's either a hide, patience or getting close (or maybe all three !) or accept that at distance you won't get Nat Geo IQ but maybe just good record shots.
 
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