matt green said:
Red Kites were not reintroduced into Wales, I do believe.
-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Eagle Owls in Yorkshire?? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wolfbirder
- Start date
Red Kites were not reintroduced into Wales, I do believe.
Ranger James
Well-known member
Amarillo said:
As much as I find these birds increadibly impressive and turly beautiful as escapees I would not welcome thier establishment in our countryside.
They're an exotic, and escaped pet and therefore should not be allowed to get a talon-hold. If had colonised naturally, ie theri range expanded, then I would not have a problem and would be very excited. but they're not, so I'm not.
Just because you happen to like something doesn't make its presence here acceptable.
but this whole argument raises the issue of the native, which in our flora and fauna is riddled with such hypocrasy. There's always an argument for where do you draw the line, and what constitues native? Last 50 years? Last 500? Last interglacial? I tend to think human introduction = non native, but that means I'm resigning myself to wanting to see the back of canada geese, ruddy ducks (no real problems there than) and virtually all of the UK mammal fauna (ah, bit more of a problem). So its a difficult one to draw a position on.
Nipping things like this in the bud seem sensible, but with TV profile now raised it could already be too late, and the 'Ah' factor will see them protected with the same vitriol afforded (rightly) to the peregrine or red kite.
Who said conservation was easy?
James
Ranger James
Well-known member
Similar thread to this running across the way - my feelings are mixed, if these are escapees then they should be removed from the UK avifauna no question. If they have naturally colonised from the continent then great, and accept that as a very big predator hey will inevitably prey upon other, smaller, possibly rarer predators.
James
James
Silvershark said:
Hi Silvershark,
I believe none of the birds are thought to be birds moving in from the continent. There is no accepted record of an Eagle Owl occurring naturally in the UK - it is not on either category A or B of the British list, only in category E, which denotes species that have been recorded as introductions, transportees or escapees from captivity, and whose British breeding populations (if any) are thought not to be self-sustaining. All Eagle Owls in the UK are thought to originate from escapees, it could become a category C bird if the population reaches a level at which it is considered self-sustaining.
JMikeB
Well-known member
I am assuming that the Eagle Owl was once resident in the UK as a native species, no matter how many hundreds of years ago. Surely this is no different to a reintroduction scheme though without any degree of control. I think man has done too much damage to wildlife over the years and I fully support any such species being reintroduced into Britain no matter how it occurs. I would personally also like to see Wolves, Lynx, Beaver etc roaming free in Britain.
Whilst at Loch Garten in the summer it was explained during a vidoe clip that the Ospreys choice of nest site (ie isolated trees well away from dense woodland) was due to instinctive behaviour brought about by the possible threat of Eagle Owls in ages past. I am assuming that the adults are at equal risk of predation as the young?
Whilst at Loch Garten in the summer it was explained during a vidoe clip that the Ospreys choice of nest site (ie isolated trees well away from dense woodland) was due to instinctive behaviour brought about by the possible threat of Eagle Owls in ages past. I am assuming that the adults are at equal risk of predation as the young?
Silvershark
Well-known member
Jos Stratford said:
In that case I do agree with Ranger James
There is a thread on this in the TV forum too, the TV thread is pretty much the same as the other two too!
Keith Reeder
Watch the birdie...
I recall an earlier thread on EOs which made some very strong arguments that they were never a native of the UK - even back as far as the fossil record.
Last edited:
Andrew Rowlands
Well-known member
Memory can be a strange thing Mattmatt green said:
. As Jos wrote, Spanish Red Kites (or any others that I know of) were never released into Wales. The current healthy breeding situation in Wales was boosted during the 'sixties by the 'arrival' of an ex-falconers bird of German origin.Andy.
Ranger James
Well-known member
markho said:
But if the consensus is that they have never been part of the UK avifauna, and now they are breeding, the only way it could be deemed a success ecologically is if it were down to range expansion, which I severly doubt. These are escaped pets, regardless of whether one 'likes' the species in question should not make any difference from other non-native species breeding in the UK.
I admit that this is one of the most difficult ecological arguments I find to balance in my own mind, as far as the totally artificial UK landscape and its plant and animal communities is concerned.
James
stuart scott
Well-known member
It didn't take long for subject of meddling to appear.
If we don’t think it fits then it must be destroyed or controlled.
If they all flew over from the continent, would it make a difference on there being some control?
Is it certain the original birds are all released?...I didn't think so.... and considering there’s been a number of successful years breeding, so there must be a few of generations of birds, are the offspring deemed non-resident ( and have to be controlled ) too?
I think we should break a habit of a lifetime and leave them be...
stu
If we don’t think it fits then it must be destroyed or controlled.
If they all flew over from the continent, would it make a difference on there being some control?
Is it certain the original birds are all released?...I didn't think so.... and considering there’s been a number of successful years breeding, so there must be a few of generations of birds, are the offspring deemed non-resident ( and have to be controlled ) too?
I think we should break a habit of a lifetime and leave them be...
stu
matt green
Norfolkman gone walkabout
i was referring to information i THOUGHT i heard on the programmeAndrew Rowlands said:Memory can be a strange thing Matt
Andy.
'the eagle has landed'.i'm sure i heard lolo williams talking about 'spanish blood'.i await to be corrected.
ps,should'nt have to wait too long 3
matt
saluki
Well-known member
matt green said:i was referring to information i THOUGHT i heard on the programme
'the eagle has landed'.i'm sure i heard lolo williams talking about 'spanish blood'.i await to be corrected.
ps,should'nt have to wait too long 3
matt
Hi Matt,
Take a look here:
http://www.gigrin.co.uk/spanishredkites.html
Note the last paragraph. It seems attempts were made but failed.
saluki
Ranger James
Well-known member
stuarts said:
It has been pointed out here on a previous reply from Jos that the eagle owl is not a bird that has been accepted as seen in the UK as anything but an escapee. There have been no accepted wild birds seen here.
The presence of non-native predators in the UK wildfauna is a difficult one to accept - take American mink for example. I wish someone would.
If the EOs have expanded thier range here naturally - great, lets watch them expand. But these are not birds that have come from wild stock, they are escaped pets that are here because of bad husbandry and I'm afraid to say the only responsible thing to do from an ecological standpoint is to remove them.
HOWEVER - there are conflicting statements as to whether these birds have historically been part of the British avifauna. If they have its a much more difficult argument and I would say leave them alone. But it has been mentioned here that there is evidence to suggest the EO has never been part of the UK assemblage.
Jim
Last edited:
Isurus
Well-known member
Realistically what are the chances of multiple pairs establishing themselves as a result of one escaped pet "finding" another all the way across Britain? Is there any evidence to suggest that this was a deliberate attempt to [re]introduce the species by "well-meaning bird lovers"?
I only ask as the establishment of several breeding pairs seems a long shot to me as does the escape of a pair together compared with an intentional release.
I only ask as the establishment of several breeding pairs seems a long shot to me as does the escape of a pair together compared with an intentional release.
Ranger James
Well-known member
Isurus said:
Yes, that's a point, but the liklihood is that so many EOs have been accidentally and deliberatly released into the British countryside that it is quite conceivable they could begin breeding - as has been said recently, our ecology suits them down to the ground. EOs are available through the bird of prey trade at stupidly low prices, they breed prolifically and there is no licencing system to stop dim-witted morons from owning these spectacular birds - was it this thread or another where someone was eulagising about a bloke sat on a wall who gave him his EO then ran off to get his python. To further show off and pose to people. Hmm - I'm surprised someone admitted to being impressed by that?
Anyway, it is a sad fact that the bird of prey trade is going to way of the reptile trade and now morons can impulse buy and let them go when it all gets too much for them. The recent popularity of Harry Potter has seen sales of captive bred owls soar.
Don't get me wrong - the EOs are just getting on with the hand that has been delt to them buy getting bought by an ignorant @rse, but that doesn't make the ecological argument any different.
I say bring back strict licencing for keeping a raptor in captivity, however this is a wild birds forum, so I will try and get back on track.
I would like to see proof that these birds have been part of the UK wild bird population at some point historically, and then move on the the issue of where these birds came from. Without this information it is impossible to make the correct decision.
James
and on the issue of ignorant bird keepers, I remember a time I worked at a fantastic bird of prey centre, and a man walked to buy a hood for a kestrel. In conversation he dropped in that he wanted to do some hunting with his bird. I asked what he hoped to catch and he relied that he was hoping for deer or rabbit, but pheasant would do - something to put on the table.
What a tool.
Ranger James
Well-known member
Isurus said:
VOLE! He should think himself lucky with a beetle, or earthworm!
But yes, humor should not get in the way of the seriousness of the situation.
Jim
StevieEvans
Well-known member
Maybe when the English EO population increases further, they'll switch from eating rabbits morning, noon & night & begin to take Ruddy Ducks instead....... ;-)
SE
SE
