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Usefulness or otherwise of 20x fixed eyepiece (Nikon ED50 related) (1 Viewer)

M

mulligatawny owl

Well-known member
Just a few questions regarding my Nikon ED50 with 20xW eyepiece.

I bought these for £325.00 used a couple of weeks ago, great price I thought :)

Anyway I'm new to scopes having always just used 7 or 8x bins for birding, but seeing most birders seem to have scopes these days I thought I'd take the plunge. I should add that as I don't drive I'm limited to what can be carried about in a rucksack all day.

So, I'm fairly impressed with the brightness and sharpness of the scope but having used it in a variety of situations for the past week or so I can't really see much practical use for 20x magnification. My Nikon SE 8x32's and Opticron HRWP 8x42's bins are both very bright and pin sharp, a real joy to look through. With either of these bins I can pick out small details and usually ID moderately distant waders for example.
Now, when using the Ed50 with 20x ( either with hide clamp or velbon maxi L tripod ) I really don't feel I'm gaining anything worthwhile over the bins, the view is closer of course but not as bright or as sharp or as relaxing as the bins and just not powerful enough to warrant bringing the scope along at all I have concluded.

Soo, my questions are does anyone feel 20x is a useful power to have? What situations do you find it useful in? and, for ED50 users what eyepiece shall I get instead? Will the 27x be a significant enough increase in magnification over the 20x? if so how much less bright will it be? And if I get the zoom can the ED50 even cope with magnification of 30 x or over?

Many thanks in advance.
 
with a decent pair of 10x bins I went for the 27x eyepiece - otherwise, yes it's kind of not worth the extra magnification to be having a scope. From other threads on here 27x is the favoured option - more so than the zooms too (a bit tunnel like, and 27x plenty enough in most situations). For digiscoping the 20x may give more light, but for most birding the 27x is a cracking eyepiece (ok you're never going to get the same light gathering capabilities at dawn and dusk as with a top of the range 65 or 80mm objective scope).
 
Thanks for the reply. Yep I think you're right 20x is just not worth the hassle of bringing the scope along. Its difficult to see many situations or distances where it would be that useful. Might be different if my bins were not top notch and such a pleasure to use.
I think 27x may well be the way to go. £bay here I come :)
 
Using the ED50A/27x Wide DS combo on a monopod+ballhead, I think it's really great.
If the ED50A is your only scope and really want a significant advantage vs binoculars, 27x is the way to go. It has a nearly as wide FOV as the 13-x0 zoom at lowest magnification.

But the fact that you feel the 20x is less bright than desired makes me a bit concerned.
I never felt the 27x isn't bright enough but then I use it during daytime and shift to a larger scope when I need more magnification and/or low light performance.
If you're serious about the brightness issue, you'd better forget the 27x and the zooms, and get a 65 mm scope instead. Yes, it's heavier but not very bulky, but at 26x it's as bright as the ED50 is at 20x. A Pentax 65 + XW14 (28x) should be da shit you're after.
The BST Explorer 15mm (26x) is a great but cheap alternative at £41 at *Bay.

//L
 
Thanks looksharp. The 20x is plenty bright enough really, just a fair bit less bright than my bins. I'm sure the 27x will be fine. All I'm really after is something that will enable me to comfortably ID birds when my bins wont. I probably wont be using the scope a huge amount anyway.

I might consider a 65mm scope one day, but it would have to be really compact for me to consider. I do a lot of walking and cycling and the ED50 I can just put in my rucksack and forget about, mostly.

I did very briefly have a Kowa 611 with a 20 -60 zoom, that fit in my rucksack ok but was still a bit bulky for me. Anyway I sent it back after one weekend cos the objective lens was so badly scratched and the eye relief for my glasses was no good.

This BST explorer 26x is this for the Pentax or the Nikon?
 
I use an ED50 with 20x MC (old type with fold down eyecup) and find it to deliver enough power, clarity and light for most situations, though I use 8x bins. I generally use it for pathc work & I intend to use it abroad shortly, though for the most part when Im birding elsewhere I use a 65mm scope with 30x lens, which is all I will ever need for the type of birding I do.
 
MO,

I never utilized a 20x eyepiece for the ED 50 when I had it. The 16x MC was the eyepiece that I used most often. I felt it gave me two benefits. For one, it was just enough magnification over a regular 7x or 8x binocular to make tricky IDs at distances just beyond what I felt were comfortable with my preferred binocular magnifications. Yes, the images are generally brighter and sharper in my binoculars. I can find birds and generally ID them with my binoculars but when I want to really see detail then the ED50 with the 16x eyepiece was a nice little tool to have along with me.

I also found it beneficial when scanning large sections of the sky in search of birds of prey. The wide field of view and respectable eye relief allowed me to scan large areas rather quickly. The extra magnification over a binocular also allowed me to find birds that I otherwise would not have been able to because of the increased magnification.....assuming atmospheric conditions were cooperating of course.

To really see the benefit of any given scope though it needs to be on a steady rest. Yes, you can use the ED 50 with a shoulder stock or monopod but a tripod really allows you to see all that a given scope has to offer.
 
Thanks Daniel and Frank, nice to hear some positive views of the lower power eyepieces.
I have to admit the ED50 @ 20x is stunning for viewing close up but then that's not really what I got it for.
Maybe given time I will appreciate the benefits of the 20xw if I keep it, for now though I think I definitely need higher power.
I suppose another option would be to get the Helios fieldmaster ED 60 zoom for when I need more power, tis cheaper than buying a new eyepiece for the Nikon, I've heard good things about this scope.
 
Hi,

I think 20x on a tripod (and from a good quality scope as the ED50) really does make a difference to 7x or 8x handheld binoculars.

I used 16x when being in Vietnam in open forest landscape and I enjoyed it a lot. Now in Europe I use the 27x more, because longer distances at the lake or in the mountains.

That said, in open country, you may still want higher mags than 20x or 27x. Of course an ED50 with 20x is a compromise and not a full replacement of a big scope.

Florian
 
mulligatawny owl said:
This BST explorer 26x is this for the Pentax or the Nikon?
Click to expand...

It's for Pentax and other scopes that accept 1.25" eyepieces. I had the Pentax and the 12 mm (32x) was really, really great, but the wider FOV of the 15 mm, not to mention the XW14, would be nice.

I'm a biking birder too, and recently I acquired a Nikon ED82A. It fits easily in my backpack, then I still have a field guide book and a twice-folded sit pad in the bottom of the backpack, and there's plenty room for a pair of binoculars and even more.
The reason I exchanged the Pentax for the big Nikon was to get more usable magnification and low-light performance.

This is the rucksack I use, it's sort of a daypack and quite compact without being small:

http://skinflint.co.uk/630798

http://www.haglofs.com/en-us/products/backpacksbags/daypacks/unisex/corker_medium_en-us.aspx

Frank, you know I have the 16x Wide DS but I use it as 30x on the ED82A. But I agree that the 16x combo is a remarkable instrument for hawking, especially when letting the ballhead/monopod hang underneath the scope as a gyro stabilizer.
 
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Mulligatawny owl,

although that 20x is a very nice EP, with the 50ED I prefer the zoom. It really performs excellent up to 40x.

Lars,
how do you carry the tripod at bike?

Steve
 
I would certainly suggest persevering with the 20xW EP. I have a 27xW as well but I prefer the brightness of the 20x - an excellent eyepiece. If you can get hold of a 40xW to back it up for longer distances I think that this is the best combination for the ED50. Compared to the expansive 72 degree view of the WA EPs I find the zoom FOV too narrow for my taste.
 
The 27X will definitely be enough increase in magnification to notice the difference,compared to the 20X..The Zoom is nice for general use,but has a very narrow field of view at low power and short eye relief at hig mag,so its whole range is a bit too compromised for my taste...Nice image quality as all Nikon eyepieces though .
The 20X is nice ,and I would not say that It doesnt have an advantage over a 7X ,8x or 10X pair of binos,specially mounted on a tripod.I would reccommend the use of a pointing device though ,to be able to get fast,accurate aiming in the short range ,where its quality really shines
 
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Thank you all for the replies and great advice :)

I think ideally I need to find somewhere I can try both the 27x and the zoom eyepieces on my scope, probably highly unlikely finding any dealers that stock them both in my neck of the woods. The main worry about the zoom would be short eye relief for my glasses, the narrower field of view I don't think will bother me too much.

Hopefully I can scrape enough money together to keep the 20x too, I'm sure I'll find it rather more useful when used in conjunction with a zoom or the 27x.

At the moment though I'm definitely finding the 20x a little frustrating in that there are almost no instances so far ( though its only been a week I'll admit ) where it can ID a bird where my bins cant and I'd much rather just have a brighter and more relaxing view of a slightly more distant bird with my bino's.

Still its all good fun figuring out what works best with my style of birdwatching and getting to try out new gadgets :)
 
mulligatawny owl said:
I'd much rather just have a brighter and more relaxing view of a slightly more distant bird with my bino's.
Click to expand...

I wonder a bit why you are not happy with the brightness of the view. In daylight, there should not be much difference to your bins. My 27x is as bright as the binoculars, the difference get's only apparent once light is bad, e.g. on overcast days or in the evening...
Perhaps sth. wrong with your EP?

As for the pointing device, you should try the cable tie. The grippa case is nice, but does not help much with pointing. Here a pic with both the grippa case and the cable tie for pointing (which works just excellent).
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=343204&d=1314039962
 
That looks a nifty setup there dalat. I've just googled the cable tie pointing device as I had no idea what it was, in fact I'm pretty clueless about scope use in general I have to admit.
Maybe because I've just been using bino's for years its gonna be a bit of a learning curve.
I'm not unhappy with the brightness of the 20x at all but even on a sunny day I can tell my SE's and HRWP's are brighter.
 
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