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Record high temperatures in Australia

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Old Tuesday 22nd January 2019, 17:59   #26
litebeam
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Originally Posted by DMW View Post
"I suspect"; "It's probably"; "I wouldn't be at all surprised"... yep, we can all make statements like that, but I would rather base my viewpoint on the thoughts of people who are actually studying a subject in a proper systematic way doing actual science with actual data sets, than people who aren't but who "suspect".....
And this jewel right here might be the most ridiculous and ironic posting that I have ever read here.

Why?
Try finding just one climate change headline that isn't predicated with the obligatory helping verb or doublespeak: Scientists suspect... experts believe... climate sources wonder... temperatures could... water levels might... It's possible that...
I could go on ad nauseum and never cover all of the waffling verbiage that these these 'experts' use in presenting their 'facts.'

DMW, I have things to do, perhaps I'll comment on this further when I get the chance, but suffices to say that my skepticism starts with distrust in the scientists themselves. I learned at a young age to 'question authority," remember when people (especially liberals) actually believed that?
Now we have sheep posting NYT climate change articles like they are holy script carried down from Sinai. There is a complete absence of intellectual curiosity when it comes to questioning these publications; they are accepted carte blanche. Those of us that do question are regarded as the loons!


None of this is should take from the fact that we should all be good stewards of our planet and its resources; my thoughts on that are clear and numerous on this particular forum. Some think that 'skepticism' equates to allowed 'abuse'...not the case.

Last edited by litebeam : Tuesday 22nd January 2019 at 18:01.
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Old Tuesday 22nd January 2019, 18:40   #27
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Originally Posted by litebeam View Post
And this jewel right here might be the most ridiculous and ironic posting that I have ever read here.

Why?
Try finding just one climate change headline that isn't predicated with the obligatory helping verb or doublespeak: Scientists suspect... experts believe... climate sources wonder... temperatures could... water levels might... It's possible that...
I could go on ad nauseum and never cover all of the waffling verbiage that these these 'experts' use in presenting their 'facts.'

DMW, I have things to do, perhaps I'll comment on this further when I get the chance, but suffices to say that my skepticism starts with distrust in the scientists themselves. I learned at a young age to 'question authority," remember when people (especially liberals) actually believed that?
Now we have sheep posting NYT climate change articles like they are holy script carried down from Sinai. There is a complete absence of intellectual curiosity when it comes to questioning these publications; they are accepted carte blanche. Those of us that do question are regarded as the loons!


None of this is should take from the fact that we should all be good stewards of our planet and its resources; my thoughts on that are clear and numerous on this particular forum. Some think that 'skepticism' equates to allowed 'abuse'...not the case.
Actually, please don't bother. I was hoping to get an adult answer from you to understand why you hold the views you do, but from this response I'm really no longer interested in what you think or why.
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Old Tuesday 22nd January 2019, 19:56   #28
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Actually, please don't bother. I was hoping to get an adult answer from you to understand why you hold the views you do, but from this response I'm really no longer interested in what you think or why.
Shame isn't it? Much as I love Jonathan Pie's core message, I have yet to be convinced by any real-life experience that he is actually right about the anti-intellectualist crowd.
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Old Tuesday 22nd January 2019, 20:45   #29
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Actually, please don't bother. I was hoping to get an adult answer from you to understand why you hold the views you do, but from this response I'm really no longer interested in what you think or why.
Awww...reads like I hurt someone's feelings by pointing out the 'elephant in the room' irony. It couldn't be any more cogent.

My pleasure to move on.
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Old Tuesday 22nd January 2019, 21:57   #30
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Awww...reads like I hurt someone's feelings by pointing out the 'elephant in the room' irony.
Oh dear.

Once more then for the record on 'climate scientists can't say anything for certain':
https://www.skepticalscience.com/set...termediate.htm

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My pleasure to move on.
Probably for the best. If you're unable to engage in a serious argument then what value are your contributions?
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Old Tuesday 22nd January 2019, 22:10   #31
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Probably for the best. If you're unable to engage in a serious argument then what value are your contributions?
Definitely for the best and all too characteristic. The little rat habitually slinks back into the shadows when the going gets tough.
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Old Friday 1st February 2019, 22:44   #32
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMW View Post
"I suspect"; "It's probably"; "I wouldn't be at all surprised"... yep, we can all make statements like that, but I would rather base my viewpoint on the thoughts of people who are actually studying a subject in a proper systematic way doing actual science with actual data sets, than people who aren't but who "suspect".

As for your I was right and everybody else was wrong story, sure, maybe. But how many thousands of "They were right and I was wrong" stories are there for every contrarian who was right? Basing an opinion on the lone voice of a person who has no grounding in a discipline seems a poor strategy compared to listening to the consensus opinion of those who do.

The whole point of the scientific process is that people who have contrarian views have a very real platform to present them, and if they can deliver the evidence then they become the accepted wisdom. As I said before, any climate scientist who can produce a convincing model and data set to demonstrate that it's volcanoes or sun-spots or farting cows that cause global warming is going to hit the jackpot.
Well Mr snarky pants! I don't disagree with what you've said - only the way that you've said it ......

It's too simplistic to label people this or that, or seek to put them in the "contrarian" box. One of the most fascinating and revelatory moments in science is when a scientist observes something unpredicted or looks at the data and says, "hmm - that's interesting .... "

Such moments may come from within a particular scientific clique, those tied to various employment, potential tenure, or funding dependencies, those subject to "groupthink", publishing opportunity pressures, or whatever, or they may come from those scientists outside such groups and compromises, the retired, the maverick, or those even outside of the field. Founder of Natural Sequence Farming and all-round landscape guru Peter Andrews OAM had insights and results which proved his case and yet was treated as a pariah by the scientific and establishment governing bodies for decades to the point of being threatened with prosecution ..... until science finally (mostly) caught up ~30 years later .......

You chose to selectively quote my words and left out my conclusion - <snip>"I trust the scientific process to get it right ----- eventually,"<snip>

Also consider that scientific knowledge as it exists is a mere subset of reality. There are individuals, groups, and cultures to whom the limitations of time and space do not apply - just because you won't see the "proof" for centuries or millenia doesn't make it any less 'real'



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Old Friday 1st February 2019, 23:19   #33
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Australia - land of droughts and flooding rains ....

and massive modern landscspe mismanagement too ....

One part of the country has seen some (but not all, such as highest temperature) temperature records broken, while other parts are in flood (again some record levels, or significant 1 in a 100, or 500 year events) ..... all of it tied to a late monsoon and blocking highs in the Tasmania Sea. Most of any fires experienced are invariably 'd*ckh**d' caused.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...aIi?li=AAgfIYZ
Several important points ate left out of this article:
* There is landscape scale mismanagement and destruction of natural ecology due to grazing/ agriculture, vegetation clearing, infrastructure, and suburban /urban development. Soil loss continues at greater than natural rates.
* Water resources, such as the Murray-Darling Basin are particularly mismanaged as revealed by the latest fish kills, and Royal commission report (see here: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread...85#post3812985 )
* Urban Heat Island effects on climate and temperature records are now coalescing to have landscape scale effects (the so called Urban Heat Continent)
* Sedimentation is a major factor in damage and bleaching of the Great Barrier Reef
* Federal Opposition leader, Bill Shorten, is a worm. (of the parasitic kind, as earthworms are lovely useful creatures)

Yearly rainfall comes down in a week .....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...schools-closed





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Old Monday 4th February 2019, 19:42   #34
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..The little rat habitually slinks back into the shadows when the going gets tough.
No, actually I slink-ed down to the Caribbean to enjoy some much-needed Sun.
As everyone here in the U.S. knows, this country has been in the grips of some of the coldest air ever experienced in recorded history. The last thing on my mind was you lot, or global warming.
I expect that some of you will be along shortly to explain that Global Warming means that we'll experience 'colder colds.'

Rank stupidity.
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Old Monday 4th February 2019, 21:14   #35
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Originally Posted by litebeam View Post
No, actually I slink-ed down to the Caribbean to enjoy some much-needed Sun.
As everyone here in the U.S. knows, this country has been in the grips of some of the coldest air ever experienced in recorded history. The last thing on my mind was you lot, or global warming.
I expect that some of you will be along shortly to explain that Global Warming means that we'll experience 'colder colds.'

Rank stupidity.
Here you go amigo: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cr.../#.XFiqM1X7Spo

Quote the final paragraph:
"Deep Freezes in a Warming World
Splits in the stratospheric polar vortex do happen naturally, but should we expect to see them more often thanks to climate change and rapid Arctic warming? It is possible that these cold intrusions could become a more regular winter story. This is a hot research topic and is by no means settled, but a handful of studies offer compelling evidence that the stratospheric polar vortex is changing, and that this trend can explain bouts of unusually cold winter weather.
Undoubtedly this new polar vortex attack will unleash fresh claims that global warming is a hoax. But this ridiculous notion can be quickly dispelled with a look at predicted temperature departures around the globe for early this week. The lobe of cold air over North America is far outweighed by areas elsewhere in the United States and worldwide that are warmer than normal.
Symptoms of a changing climate are not always obvious or easy to understand, but their causes and future behaviors are increasingly coming into focus. And it’s clear that at times, coping with global warming means arming ourselves with extra scarfs, mittens and long underwear."
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Old Monday 4th February 2019, 22:36   #36
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Right on cue...
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Old Monday 4th February 2019, 23:24   #37
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Credit where it's due, you were spot on! Well done!
I hope it's all starting to make sense now?
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Old Monday 11th February 2019, 10:26   #38
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Exclamation Droughts, Flooding Rains, and .......... Crocs !!!

When the emergency personnel say stay out of the flood water - they mean it ! - getting swept away is the least of your problems !!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.new...?source=images

Farmers hit hard as thousands of cattle swept away .....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.9ne...4-f577509acdaa




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