Kowa Genesis 8x33 ... Why Spend More ??? (1 Viewer)

I am going to make this brief, its not meant to be a review. I have had a pair of Kowa's 8x33 about 10 days now & compared them to two high end 8x32's binoculars costing twice as much(Swarovski,Zeiss). The Kowa's build/optical quality give up nothing to any of these high end competitor's costing twice as much. So why are these other brands selling for a Grand or more than the Kowa's ? I should say .... What makes a consumer willing to spend that much money on a product that clearly provides such little or no real gain ? Has the powers to be done such a good job brain washing so many ? Reading many comments here , it appears so. The only conclusion that I can think of is there must be a subliminal message coded in the words Swarovski, Zeiss & maybe even Leica that makes these high end sales possible. My comments are not meant to offend anyone or by any means to make fun of those who's judgments have clearly been effected by this type of devious sales tactics. I guess my brain is immune to such subliminal messages 3 ...gwen

gcole said:

I am going to make this brief, its not meant to be a review. I have had a pair of Kowa's 8x33 about 10 days now & compared them to two high end 8x32's binoculars costing twice as much(Swarovski,Zeiss). The Kowa's build/optical quality give up nothing to any of these high end competitor's costing twice as much. So why are these other brands selling for a Grand or more than the Kowa's ? I should say .... What makes a consumer willing to spend that much money on a product that clearly provides such little or no real gain ? Has the powers to be done such a good job brain washing so many ? Reading many comments here , it appears so. The only conclusion that I can think of is there must be a subliminal message coded in the words Swarovski, Zeiss & maybe even Leica that makes these high end sales possible. My comments are not meant to offend anyone or by any means to make fun of those who's judgments have clearly been effected by this type of devious sales tactics. I guess my brain is immune to such subliminal messages 3 ...gwen

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Really? Just the contrary I would say.

It all comes down to what you are looking for, or at. I hear people all the time say ''brand x'' is just as good as ''brand y'', but [to my eyes] ''brand y'' is clearly better. Frankly, this whole schtick, ''people here are stupid for spending [their own] money on ''brand y'', is really tiresome.

Everyone hates the Porsche owner, but everyone wants one.....

And then there are the people who use the same binocular for a decade or more without changing or up grading. Who are they trying to impress anyway!3:-O3:-O

Bob

gcole said:

I am going to make this brief, its not meant to be a review. I have had a pair of Kowa's 8x33 about 10 days now & compared them to two high end 8x32's binoculars costing twice as much(Swarovski,Zeiss). The Kowa's build/optical quality give up nothing to any of these high end competitor's costing twice as much. So why are these other brands selling for a Grand or more than the Kowa's ? I should say .... What makes a consumer willing to spend that much money on a product that clearly provides such little or no real gain ? Has the powers to be done such a good job brain washing so many ? Reading many comments here , it appears so. The only conclusion that I can think of is there must be a subliminal message coded in the words Swarovski, Zeiss & maybe even Leica that makes these high end sales possible. My comments are not meant to offend anyone or by any means to make fun of those who's judgments have clearly been effected by this type of devious sales tactics. I guess my brain is immune to such subliminal messages 3 ...gwen

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What. A. Throbber. Seriously, you like a product, that's awesome. It suits you? nice. To insult and demean people? over binocular choice? seriously, the more I interact with other birders the more I totally understand why people take the utter p#ss out of what should be a beautiful hobby - its not the birds its the people they takingthe rip out of.

On the other hand, maybe you ain't got the green back and trying to re-assure yourself that your bins are as Gucci as you wish you could afford.

Who knows.... frankly, with your attitude, who cares. I'd certainly not break bread or go birding with some one holding your mentality between their ears.

The reactions may be a bit excessive (James, I don't have a Porsche, but I really don't want one, and I don't hate you - in fact I hope you enjoy yours!) as the original post possibly is - GC/Gwen does add that smiley! GC, another reason is, some feel "safe" with those makes, in regard to optical and build quality, even without learning a lot about a model.

Ratal said:

What. A. Throbber. Seriously, you like a product, that's awesome. It suits you? nice. To insult and demean people? over binocular choice? seriously, the more I interact with other birders the more I totally understand why people take the utter p#ss out of what should be a beautiful hobby - its not the birds its the people they takingthe rip out of.

On the other hand, maybe you ain't got the green back and trying to re-assure yourself that your bins are as Gucci as you wish you could afford.

Who knows.... frankly, with your attitude, who cares. I'd certainly not break bread or go birding with some one holding your mentality between their ears.

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WOW !! ... I guess I must have it a nerve & I was not really going for that root canal. I was just stating that I think the upper tier of Alpha optics are ridiculously over priced in comparison to the wide range of fine optics now available. ... I guess some people have some difficulty in understanding the words " I don't mean to offend or make fun of " so I better holster my typing finger before my comments pis... off any more Alpha owners which might have taken my comment the wrong way ..... gwen

gcole said:

WOW !! ... I guess I must have it a nerve & I was not really going for that root canal. I was just stating that I think the upper tier of Alpha optics are ridiculously over priced in comparison to the wide range of fine optics now available. ... I guess some people have some difficulty in understanding the words " I don't mean to offend or make fun of " so I better holster my typing finger before my comments pis... off any more Alpha owners which might have taken my comment the wrong way ..... gwen

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Gwen, glad you like the Kowa.
That model has intrigued and eluded me for sometime.

Never could find a good source locally that carried them.

Although I own some overpriced glass I understand where your coming from.

Bryce...

C'mon, really, do we need any more threads about this? If you don't think they aren't worth the money, don't buy one, simple as that. This whole topic has been thrashed to death but I would add that, without the optic obsessive alpha owners here, there would be very little discussion or traffic in general - same as any internet forum.

There is a fine line between good, good enough and whatever one thinks is the best but that line is drawn by the individual and it seems petty to deride the choices one makes. You won't see me mocking someone that can only afford a $100.00 binocular or someone that can't justify the cost of something very expensive - I've been there and and I understand completely...they are, after all, just binoculars!

I'm an evil Z S and L guy, but I have read glowing reviews of the Genesis Kowas by big honcho mavens, and direly crave to look though one. My problem is simply I cannot find one to look through. Sportsman's Warehouse is the best store in my region, and they don't carry Kowa. Dang! Not my fault!

Ron

As for my own |:S| ulterior mindset I'm a sinister |})| K and L (presently) man craving |^| at 8x32/33 a K, Meopta or Z. (PS. |^| And at 12x a Celestron - subliminal motives for this not clear.)

Gwen,

I've been really impressed by the Kowas. The 8x33 I thoroughly enjoyed but thought the x44s really did pip the big 3 on a couple of points IMO... but their weight ruled them out for me. I did get a hint from one the Kowa guys at a show last summer that a lighter replacement might be on the way.

Enjoy!

David

Gcole,

Exactly how I feel owning the Conqurst HD 8x32!

There were some that chimed in that they felt the Kowa G 8x33 still bested the Conquest HD in one way or another.

If you ever get the opportunity to view the Kowa Genesis 8x33 side by side with the Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32, i would be interested in hearing your opinion on the two.

CG

Don't let them get to you gcole. I personally haven't seen the Kowa, but there are other optics one could substitute in your analogy and get the same results (Meopta HD). People can usually find a way to justify whatever they want. One of the very best posts I've ever seen on this subject came from a source here in the USA, and I 100% agree with him, and have seen it for myself first hand many, many times.



From a very well known and respected outdoorsman/writer, with decades of experience, in the USA:

"Yes, human eyes vary considerably, and there are even some general trends. On average women are more sensitive to the blue side of the spectrum, and men more sensitive to the red. The pupils of older people don't normally open as widely in dim light, which means a "full-sized" exit pupil of 7mm or so doesn't make as much difference to them as quality glass and coatings.

But our brains also play tricks on us. Several studies have down that price affects not just our judgment, but can actually make the part of the brain perceiving anything respond favorably. One study I came across was of a wine tasting. A bunch of bottles of wine without any label other than price were tasted by a bunch of people, some "sophisticated" wine drinkers and some not. The people were told they were rating new wines as an aid to wineries.

The price labels were phony. Some $5 wines had $30 labels, and some $40 wines had $8 labels, and so on. Overall, the more "expensive" wines were given higher marks, and it didn't matter if the taster was a wine sophisticate or not. That's not surprising, but the people were also hooked up to sensors that recorded responses in various parts of their brains. When most people responded favorably to a cheap wine, it wasn't just price prejudice. The part of their brain involving "taste pleasure" also lit up.

One of the tests I ran about a dozen years ago was covering the name of two brands of roof-prism binoculars of the same magnification and objective-lens diameter with duct tape. One was a high-dollar Big Three Euro, and one was a Japanese binocular costing half as much--though it was the "affordable" favorite of the year. They also resembled each other physically enough that most people wouldn't know the difference.

I don't recall the exact results, but out of about 20 people slightly more picked the Japanese binocular over the Euro, and a few called it a draw. There weren't any price tags on the binoculars, so I think the results were valid.

But binoculars also vary from year to year. Those same two binoculars would be considered very good today, but not top of the line. Some people keep chasing the flavor of the moment, but one thing I've noticed is that while individual eyes vary in optical preferences, skill in glassing varies even more. "

Good observations, Gwen. Like watches, cars or other products where the top end becomes "luxury" items, it's probably useful to acknowledge that the $2.5K binoculars really are good, but certainly not the only game in town. I tried the swaros over the last holidays and found the rolling ball effect uncomfortable, so they wouldn't work for me as I do a lot of scanning for distant wildlife. And no porsche would easily make it up the steep and spottily-plowed road to my house Dec. through March. Best to find what works well for each of us individually.

Gwen, when you stump up the extra for the big three its not just optical superiority you`re paying for, its generations of hard won expertise and wisdom in what makes a great Birding or Hunting binocular, also the care and service that you`ll be rewarded with down the years.

Kowa make a great product but ultimately its more than just the view that makes Swaro, Leica and the ilk worth that high price tag.

For me binoculars are just a means to an end, not an end in themselves.

Whether you are looking for a market leading 6x30 porro, by Kowa, or a market leading 8.5x44 by, err, yeah Kowa, you'd be hard pressed to find either spec as a current model from any of the big four.

There's a lot to be said for Kowa and there must be many who aspire to own one.

gcole said:

I am going to make this brief, its not meant to be a review. I have had a pair of Kowa's 8x33 about 10 days now & compared them to two high end 8x32's binoculars costing twice as much(Swarovski,Zeiss). The Kowa's build/optical quality give up nothing to any of these high end competitor's costing twice as much. So why are these other brands selling for a Grand or more than the Kowa's ? I should say .... What makes a consumer willing to spend that much money on a product that clearly provides such little or no real gain ? Has the powers to be done such a good job brain washing so many ? Reading many comments here , it appears so. The only conclusion that I can think of is there must be a subliminal message coded in the words Swarovski, Zeiss & maybe even Leica that makes these high end sales possible. My comments are not meant to offend anyone or by any means to make fun of those who's judgments have clearly been effected by this type of devious sales tactics. I guess my brain is immune to such subliminal messages 3 ...gwen

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Dennis will be along shortly to tell you that you like the Kowa because you cant afford a "real" binocular. :-O

I dont think you can paint with a broad brush on this subject. There are all kinds of personalities involved.

I think some will see some differences in the alpha class, some want to see some differences with the alpha class, and some just want to be seen with an alpha class.

I think above a thousand the view isnt that different from one to the other.

james holdsworth said:

Really? Just the contrary I would say.

It all comes down to what you are looking for, or at. I hear people all the time say ''brand x'' is just as good as ''brand y'', but [to my eyes] ''brand y'' is clearly better. Frankly, this whole schtick, ''people here are stupid for spending [their own] money on ''brand y'', is really tiresome.

Everyone hates the Porsche owner, but everyone wants one.....

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Spoken like a true offended brand Y owner. :-O

Dont bet on the Porsche part, give me one today and it will be sold tomorrow and the money used on something that means something to me

Ratal said:

What. A. Throbber. Seriously, you like a product, that's awesome. It suits you? nice. To insult and demean people? over binocular choice? seriously, the more I interact with other birders the more I totally understand why people take the utter p#ss out of what should be a beautiful hobby - its not the birds its the people they takingthe rip out of.

On the other hand, maybe you ain't got the green back and trying to re-assure yourself that your bins are as Gucci as you wish you could afford.

Who knows.... frankly, with your attitude, who cares. I'd certainly not break bread or go birding with some one holding your mentality between their ears.

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Classy reply there Ratal. Much easier than to actually reply why you think your choice the better choice. It sure seems many get way too much invested in their belongings, I guess it's egos that make us do it, but I dont take GColes post as an affront to anything.

Hi Gwen

There is much in what you say that I agree with.

Looking through Zeiss's Conquest HD 8x32 has really made me wonder about the wisdom of me having a Zeiss FL 8x32. The view is really great and at a great price and I have no problem at all with your enthusiasm for Kowas.

Its been said many times but the only person who can decide whether the view through any particular binocular is worth the price, is the person contemplating buying it and nobody else can really put themselves in exactly the same shoes.

Lee