Psychic Bird Watchers (1 Viewer)

MSA · Dec 18, 2007

rob stoff said:
how many times haven't you woken up just before the alarm, that's what nobody never registers because it doesn't seem strange. Unless you make a mental note of all the mundane things that happen you can't really put the seemingly strange things into context.

Rob

I have to disagree on this one! I "know" what time I want/need to wake up. If I failed to wake up at that time I would have "overslept", which very rarely happens (not even once a month). I never actually set the alarm. I can therefore say, with reasonable confidence, that I usually awake "on demand".

Hotspur, if a child lives to one day, and an OAP dies at 100 years, I guess the average life expectancy would be 50 years? I'm sure that historically less than half of children born wouldn't make it to 5, so you do the math!

John Cantelo · Dec 19, 2007

naturistbird said:
Would you not think that there are more male than female birders?
Looking for the White-tailed eagle on Sunday I saw very few women but an awful lot of male birdwatchers!

Don't confuse 'twitcher' with 'birdwatcher'. I happily concede that there are far more male twitchers. However, I often take people on birdwatching walks where the female/male ratio is often at (or above) 50:50 so the ratio of the sexes in terms of interest in birds is closer to 50:50 than you suppose. Whilst the ratio on this forum is probably not 50:50 it is certainly high enough (1:3? 1:4?) to render the fact that a female responded first utterly irrelevant .... other than reinforcing your assumptions.

Forgive me if I am underwhelmed by your evidence concerning Bee-eater. Far from not being subject to a perfectly logical explanation, one is pretty obvious to me. I reckon that 70-80% of the Bee-eaters I find, I do so by ear - a subliminal awareness that Bee-eaters are about could quite easily explain the 'intuition' you experienced. In fact I've had a similar experience - thinking of Bee-eater & instantly seeing them .... only in my case a fellow birder with sharper hearing had started to hear them moments before.

I think the other points regarding reinforcement also ring true. There is also the problem of the fallibility of human memory. It is not unknown for the human brain to "misfile" memories so that knowledge of an event is filed before the actual memories. (An inadequate description of a radio programme I heard several years back ..... unless my memory has misfiled it!)

I'm afraid I remain entirely convinced that we do not need to recourse to supernatural 'psychic' phenomena to explain experienced that are wholly explicable by factual, rational and logical argument.

Finally re-reading this I'm concerned that I might sound much snottier & rude than I mean to be - so apologies for any offence,

John

naturistbird · Dec 19, 2007

John Cantelo said:
Don't confuse 'twitcher' with 'birdwatcher'. I happily concede that there are far more male twitchers. However, I often take people on birdwatching walks where the female/male ratio is often at (or above) 50:50 so the ratio of the sexes in terms of interest in birds is closer to 50:50 than you suppose. Whilst the ratio on this forum is probably not 50:50 it is certainly high enough (1:3? 1:4?) to render the fact that a female responded first utterly irrelevant .... other than reinforcing your assumptions.

Forgive me if I am underwhelmed by your evidence concerning Bee-eater. Far from not being subject to a perfectly logical explanation, one is pretty obvious to me. I reckon that 70-80% of the Bee-eaters I find, I do so by ear - a subliminal awareness that Bee-eaters are about could quite easily explain the 'intuition' you experienced. In fact I've had a similar experience - thinking of Bee-eater & instantly seeing them .... only in my case a fellow birder with sharper hearing had started to hear them moments before.

I think the other points regarding reinforcement also ring true. There is also the problem of the fallibility of human memory. It is not unknown for the human brain to "misfile" memories so that knowledge of an event is filed before the actual memories. (An inadequate description of a radio programme I heard several years back ..... unless my memory has misfiled it!)

I'm afraid I remain entirely convinced that we do not need to recourse to supernatural 'psychic' phenomena to explain experienced that are wholly explicable by factual, rational and logical argument.

Finally re-reading this I'm concerned that I might sound much snottier & rude than I mean to be - so apologies for any offence,

John

Hi John,
Don't worry...I am listening to what you say and have not taken offence.I was actually referring to the percentage of Bird Forum males over females who participate in these threads. Surely, at any given time, there are usually/always(?) more male correspondents than female ones??Therefore I thought it interesting that Peregrinator, a female, replied first!! That is all, nothing more.
With regard to finding the Beeeaters in Majorca ,both my husband and I were beginner birdwatchers; we had absolutely no knowledge of what the birds sounded like and in fact up to that time had never seen one. We were wandering round the villages looking for them. Suddenly my fingers started tingling/buzzing. "I feel very positive that we're very close",I remarked, with absolutely no reason to say this apart from how I felt. By this time we'd been walking for quite a few miles in the heat and were getting weary. Then, towards us came 2 young birdwatchers, who told us that they were being shown the field which contained Beeeaters by some German birders; we followed them literally round a corner...and there they were 12 beautiful birds, which mesmorized us for half an hour.
It probably makes no sense to you but I rely on my intuition a lot. I get a strong tingling sensation and feel certain of my feelings.I make a lot of decisions based on intuition (or a sixth sense). Anyway I will not bore you with all this any more except to say if that is how I function then (presumably) there are others out there who use a similar method and if they are birdwatchers then this skill could become very useful.....and I would be delighted to hear about it!

Helenelizabeth2 · Dec 19, 2007

This thread just makes me want to make a general point about knowledge, science and understanding.

We 'know' now many things that we did not 'know' before. This was true 20 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 250 years ago, 1000 years ago. There is no reason to suppose that it won't also be true 20, 50, 100, 250, 1000 years in the future.

So, what I am saying is that there are bound to be things happening around us that we do not yet know or understand. Attempting to explain everything rationally using knowledge that we already have is a pretty good way of making sure that we never learn anything new.

That said, I don't see any particular evidence here of 'psychic' or 'supernatural' events but I don't see any particular evidence against them either. Saying that something could be due to known phenomena is not prove that it is.

Happy psychic birding.

rosbifs · Dec 19, 2007

I wanted to see a bird and therefore I did is chance not Pyscic ability. There are many times I've said another 5 minutes another five minutes etc etc and nothing appeared. Then the day it does you say "see, I told you five minutes" - that is the rule of 'if you say it enough it will happen'!!
As for sleeping I sleep better when I can see a clock and therefore know the time. Worse I can't sleep if I need to get up in the morning, set the alarm, and can't see the clock during the night.....
Doubt any of this helps.

John Cantelo · Dec 19, 2007

Helenelizabeth2 said:
Attempting to explain everything rationally using knowledge that we already have is a pretty good way of making sure that we never learn anything new.
QUOTE]

I couldn't disagree with you more. It is precisely by our rational use of knowledge that we have progressed,

John

naturistbird · Dec 19, 2007

rosbifs said:
I wanted to see a bird and therefore I did is chance not Pyscic ability. There are many times I've said another 5 minutes another five minutes etc etc and nothing appeared. Then the day it does you say "see, I told you five minutes" - that is the rule of 'if you say it enough it will happen'!!
As for sleeping I sleep better when I can see a clock and therefore know the time. Worse I can't sleep if I need to get up in the morning, set the alarm, and can't see the clock during the night.....
Doubt any of this helps.

At no time did I say that just because I wanted to see the Beeeaters did it lead to my finding them. The tingling feeling applies to lots of things - or possibly just a very strong feeling that something is about to come about. Often my friends ask me whether or not I get a "vibe" over something, and on many occasions I don't. It's just that when I do I - and they - do take notice of it.
Possibly this is the wrong forum to discuss this and I expected that more people would come forward and admit to having similar "feelings" as myself. Since I have not been birding long I cannot draw upon any more examples, I'm afraid. It's just that it occurred to me that having ESP with regard to birds would be very useful in the same way that I could very quickly "read" situations and people when I was teaching; in fact my colleagues and friends always asked me of my reaction to people and situations and were surprised that I could tell them things accurately of which I truly had no knowledge previously.
Ps I am , however, disgustingly normal!!

Tanny · Dec 19, 2007

Frogmouths

I do hope you don't mind my popping in on this thread but as I have only just found it, I was pleasently surprised to find that Sue, (Perrgrinator) has had the exact experianced as I have had. The psychic contact with the Frogmouth bird, only mine was with the Tawny Frogmouth, not the Marbled Frogmouth. You can read the story of my contact by going into my profile and check out my threads. Go into, "Tannys Patches" and read the story about "Hidden Eyes are Watching".
About 25 years ago I became interested in the supernatural and made a study of Divining and the use of the Pendulum. I became quite proficient in the use of both these items and could eventually discover a water source by just using my hands held in front of me. Word got around and friends would come in the hope I could help them so I progressed into psychic writing and the use of the Tarot Cards. I never used my psychic ability for any monetary gain because I believed that that would have abused my knowledge. I have no use for those charlatans who try to make a living from this knowledge. When I left Australia I stopped all of my involvement with psychic interests and I feel sure I have now lost the ability to conduct a seance. There is one person we all know in this forum who I believe has the psychic ability to heal people from afar and that is why I have taken an interest in his writings. Dr Manjeet Singh heals people with laughter and if you don't believe me then go and read the stories in, "Dr Manjeet Singhs Malasian Patch.:t:

Helenelizabeth2 · Dec 19, 2007

John Cantelo said:
Helenelizabeth2 said:

Attempting to explain everything rationally using knowledge that we already have is a pretty good way of making sure that we never learn anything new.
QUOTE]

I couldn't disagree with you more. It is precisely by our rational use of knowledge that we have progressed,

John

Click to expand...

I knew you would say that.

I think that most of the big breakthroughs in modern scientific theory were not made by the rational application of existing knowledge. They were made by leaps not by tiny steps. Those leaps may have been evaluated and proved by the application of rational knowledge but rationality didn't give rise to them. I could give you a list as long as my arm of those who were considered nutcases by their contemporaries and geniuses by the following generation. Of course, there were also plenty of nutcases who really were nutcases but I would suggest that it takes a bit of historical distance to really see which is which.

naturistbird · Dec 19, 2007

Tanny said:
I do hope you don't mind my popping in on this thread but as I have only just found it, I was pleasently surprised to find that Sue, (Perrgrinator) has had the exact experianced as I have had. The psychic contact with the Frogmouth bird, only mine was with the Tawny Frogmouth, not the Marbled Frogmouth. You can read the story of my contact by going into my profile and check out my threads. Go into, "Tannys Patches" and read the story about "Hidden Eyes are Watching".
About 25 years ago I became interested in the supernatural and made a study of Divining and the use of the Pendulum. I became quite proficient in the use of both these items and could eventually discover a water source by just using my hands held in front of me. Word got around and friends would come in the hope I could help them so I progressed into psychic writing and the use of the Tarot Cards. I never used my psychic ability for any monetary gain because I believed that that would have abused my knowledge. I have no use for those charlatans who try to make a living from this knowledge. When I left Australia I stopped all of my involvement with psychic interests and I feel sure I have now lost the ability to conduct a seance. There is one person we all know in this forum who I believe has the psychic ability to heal people from afar and that is why I have taken an interest in his writings. Dr Manjeet Singh heals people with laughter and if you don't believe me then go and read the stories in, "Dr Manjeet Singhs Malasian Patch.:t:

I have found what you say very interesting, thanks. And I certainly agree with you more over Dr Manjeet Singh...his writing is priceless!!!I hope I can correspond with you more, Tanny, as we think alike!

rob stoff · Dec 19, 2007

Helenelizabeth2 said:
John Cantelo said:

I knew you would say that.

I think that most of the big breakthroughs in modern scientific theory were not made by the rational application of existing knowledge. They were made by leaps not by tiny steps. Those leaps may have been evaluated and proved by the application of rational knowledge but rationality didn't give rise to them. I could give you a list as long as my arm of those who were considered nutcases by their contemporaries and geniuses by the following generation. Of course, there were also plenty of nutcases who really were nutcases but I would suggest that it takes a bit of historical distance to really see which is which.

Click to expand...

pyschic power or mystic influence etc weren't the factors in the great leaps forward, equatng acts of genius with supernatural phenomenon is really a travesty. The nutcases you speak of weren't thinking completely differently, they were just interpreting the data differently and through a lens uncorrupted by the conventions of contemporary rationalistic thought. They didn't operate outisde a rational framework as far as I'm aware, or perhaps you have examples of currently accepted grand hypotheses that contradict this (not Darwin or Einstein or Planck surely)?

imagine what you like but don't be surprised if, when you can't support it with sound evidence, others think it is no more than imagination.

Rob

MSA · Dec 19, 2007

rob stoff said:
Helenelizabeth2 said:

pyschic power or mystic influence etc weren't the factors in the great leaps forward, equatng acts of genius with supernatural phenomenon is really a travesty. The nutcases you speak of weren't thinking completely differently, they were just interpreting the data differently and through a lens uncorrupted by the conventions of contemporary rationalistic thought. They didn't operate outisde a rational framework as far as I'm aware, or perhaps you have examples of currently accepted grand hypotheses that contradict this (not Darwin or Einstein or Planck surely)?

imagine what you like but don't be surprised if, when you can't support it with sound evidence, others think it is no more than imagination.

Rob

Click to expand...

Personally, I find it hard enough to comprehend why anyone would choose to squeeze a cow's dangly bits and drink it to see what happened, let alone design a propulsion system based on liquid from underground being semi-ignited! Who knows what remains "untried" and what the results may be?

rob stoff · Dec 19, 2007

MSA said:
Personally, I find it hard enough to comprehend why anyone would choose to squeeze a cow's dangly bits and drink it to see what happened, let alone design a propulsion system based on liquid from underground being semi-ignited!

I don't, the nature of breasts and carbon offer good clues

Rob

Helenelizabeth2 · Dec 20, 2007

rob stoff said:
pyschic power or mystic influence etc weren't the factors in the great leaps forward, equatng acts of genius with supernatural phenomenon is really a travesty. The nutcases you speak of weren't thinking completely differently, they were just interpreting the data differently and through a lens uncorrupted by the conventions of contemporary rationalistic thought. They didn't operate outisde a rational framework as far as I'm aware, or perhaps you have examples of currently accepted grand hypotheses that contradict this (not Darwin or Einstein or Planck surely)?

imagine what you like but don't be surprised if, when you can't support it with sound evidence, others think it is no more than imagination.

Rob

I wasn't equating acts of genius with supernatural phenomena. I'm not sure I believe in supernatural phenomena. I was saying that things that appear 'supernatural' or 'mystic' now may just be things that we don't fully understand yet. Looking back on those 'nutcases' you say they were thinking rationally. Few people thought so at the time. You speak as if rational thought is an absolute that never changes but I do not believe this. Our thought processes evolve with our knowledge and understanding, with our education processes, with our cultural norms. Today's rationality is tomorrow's conservatism, tomorrow's stupidity, tomorrow's insistence on the world being flat.

If I could be bothered I'm sure I could hunt down an example of someone saying almost exactly this: imagine what you like but don't be surprised if, when you can't support it with sound evidence, others think it is no more than imagination
to a groundbreaker of a previous era.

Helenelizabeth2 · Dec 20, 2007

There is a strange mystic phenomenon occuring on this thread where posters suddenly and inexplicably loose the ability to use the quote function correctly. I expect the aliens have invaded.

Tanny · Dec 20, 2007

Psychic Phenomenon has always incurred a highly emotional attitude from both sides; the believers and the none-believers and can become a very heated discussion. I suppose it can be described in the same vein as a religious belief and we all know how religion can start wars. I have learned over the years not to answer the highly emotive none-believers questions when they become emotional and during one of my earliest meditations with my “Inner-self” as I like to call it, I was told these words.

You must listen to what people say and read all the peoples views, then evaluate what you read about and what people tell you. Then do not completely believe what you hear and read, but form your own opinions. It is ignorant to have blind faith in what you hear and read, it is also ignorant if you have no faith. You must always remain sceptical and not be too willing to except all that is said and heard. Always keep a balanced mind and investigate all matters with an open mind. Do not condemn what you are told or read about, unless there’s a reasonable ground to do so. Above all do not preach what you believe in to others because that will incur an aggressive response from those who are looking for answers and feel you’re on the wrong path to knowledge. The middle way is ideal, not too credulous, and not too incredulous. See both views and judge accordingly. Have no fear of the unknown because there’s nothing to fear but fear itself.

In Western Australia they had a Psychic Seminar, where all the mediums and fortune tellers gut together and the public went there for various reasons. I visited because of my experiences and because of my belief that no one should use, “the gift” for monetary gains. I said, the gift for want of a better word because I believe everyone has the ability to understand themselves and is able, (like riding a bike) to communicate with their inner selves, It just takes practice. As I walked around the hall it was obvious to me that out of say forty mediums at least thirty five of them were not genuine mediums and were charlatans just out to exploit the public. I had a very low esteem of the five people I considered genuine because they were charging the public a fee for a consultation. How I knew these five were genuine was when I stood watching and they became agitated and eventually asked me to move on because I was confusing their minds. I think this will do for a moment but will continue, maybe tomorrow.

Sancho · Dec 20, 2007

If I "dreamed" birds before seeing them, I think it´s pretty harmless if I choose to believe there was some kind of connection between the two events. That might make me a nutcase, but most people would reckon we´re all of us on BF nutcases, or at best slightly odd. On the subjects of psychics being used by hard-nosed police investigators, I sit on the fence; a very recent case here in Ireland involves claims that a UK-based psychic helped locate a body in a years-old Irish murder case. Whether he could help me out locating Twite is an entirely different matter

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jurek · Dec 21, 2007

I once went past adult Indian Elephant watching me and didn't notice.

Do I qualify as anti-psychic?

SueO · Dec 21, 2007

jurek said:
I once went past adult Indian Elephant watching me and didn't notice.

Do I qualify as anti-psychic?

No. You are obviously psychic. You didn't notice the elephant was watching you, but you just related that he was. So you knew

Tanny · Dec 21, 2007

Psychic Birdwatchers

The title of this thread is, "Psychic Birdwatchers" and I assume that to mean a Birdwatcher who has the psychic ability or has had a psychic experience, and the experience not necessary to have anything to do with birds or any other environmental situation. A true psychic can dowse for water or any other minerals, they can find lost items and ancient archaeology that has lain buried for Melania. Every person has the psychic ability, all it takes is concentration and a belief that you can do it. The wild Aborigines of Australia and the Bushmen of Namibia rely on their psychic ability to survive in those harsh environments. I studied the ways of the Australian Aboriginals and was able to find water for survival in the dry outback through my divining skills.
Now here in England I don't need to use my psychic ability but now and again I get some subtle thoughts and am sent to visit various birdwatching places. On two occasions I felt I had to visit the West Kirby Marina and on both occasions I was the first person to see the Goldeneye Duck for this year and the Red-breasted Merganser, these sightings are recorded in the Dee Estuary Web site.
I hope this helps you in trying to understand a little about your psychic selves if only you can find the "key" in starting the process.
Tanny.

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I may be relaxed but I'm not drunk....

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