2014 UK Orchids (1 Viewer)

Connor Rand · Jun 16, 2014

Ghostly Vision said:
Hi Ian/Conner

Sorry to disappoint but It doesn't look right for bicolor for my money. It does have a look of that var, but it should have a green base to the labellum.

We could err towards atrofuscus/fulvofusca.....

The other two look like normal Bees to me?

Sean

Hi Sean/Rich M,

Thanks. I was erring towards fulvofusca (correct name for the 'var' rather than atrofuscus?) as opposed to bicolor. Doesn't look entirely typical but I guess like with all vars its a spectrum? What are the defining characteristics of this var and does it fall within any set parameters?

On this general topic, is there a good, up-to-date, overview of the Bee vars anywhere?

Certainly interesting looking!

Ghostly Vision · Jun 16, 2014

If you can get hold of the old Ettlinger two volumes, they are still pretty useful. Second hand only, though, as out of publication some time ago.

Simon Harrap is bringing out a new book next year which promises to be very good indeed.

As for your plant, Connor, it is a difficult one to call, because the vars do not require a Latin description to become named and published, so your guess is as good as mine!

I thought fulvofusca just required a lack of pattern of any kind on the lip. Await correction by someone who knows more, though!

Sean

leptochila · Jun 16, 2014

rmielcarek said:
The 'not so young hunter' has posted some nice photos of var chlorantha at post #478.

This is var badensis ie what used to be known as var friburgensis, with sepaloid petals and the normal lip patterning.

Rich M

PS nice to meet you Mike on Sunday. Same for Sean and Kumba and anyone else who is on here.

Hi Rich

A pleasure to finally meet you too. I ended up with some very green knees after all the day's photography I can tell you!

Mike

leptochila · Jun 16, 2014

Ghostly Vision said:
Glad you put your photo's on first, not-so-young Hunter - they embarrass my efforts!

Here is a nice one of the happy couple, courtesy of "Chrissy Boy" Hazell. Faces have been blurred to protect the innocent!

I've never been to an Orchid day before!

Orchid Day - YAY! This picture will be framed...

prevell · Jun 16, 2014

Sean, you are correct, var. fulvofusca is totally devoid of any markings on the labellum.

See my photo of the first European record of this on the Hardy Orchid website.

Peter

gtbobthebuilder · Jun 16, 2014

rmielcarek said:
Hi Gary

if there were no other orchids in the vicinity it is likely that it is just a Common Spotted with an aberrant shaped lip, and an albino to boot. Interesting.

Any chance you could PM me the site details, I live in NE Somerset and wouldn't mind checking it out.

Rich M

Hello there Rich,
It was nice to meet you and gain some idea of what the odd lipped orchid could be. Also thanks for showing me the other orchids at the site. Is the attached photo the southern marsh variant that you explained to me.
Gary

rmielcarek · Jun 16, 2014

gtbobthebuilder said:
Is the attached photo the southern marsh variant that you explained to me.
Gary

Good to meet you Gary - yes that's the one, been featured on here before.

Thanks for showing me the oddity. From a distance it looks like an alba Common Spotted, and Common Spotted are everywhere at the site but no other dacts that I know of, in fact nothing it could hybridise with.

A few rubbish pics here, heavily cropped, that show the leaves, the spur on the flower and the shape of the lip which is largely sepaloid but has little spurs on the sides, maybe the remains of the lobes?

Rich M

Connor Rand · Jun 16, 2014

Ghostly Vision said:
As for your plant, Connor, it is a difficult one to call, because the vars do not require a Latin description to become named and published, so your guess is as good as mine!

I thought fulvofusca just required a lack of pattern of any kind on the lip. Await correction by someone who knows more, though!

Sean

Thanks Sean and Peter, from your comments my plant looks like fulvofusca of all the vars.

The only vars that I know to have occurred in Norfolk previously are chlorantha and flavescens.

rmielcarek · Jun 16, 2014

Ghostly Vision said:
As for your plant, Connor, it is a difficult one to call, because the vars do not require a Latin description to become named and published, so your guess is as good as mine!

I thought fulvofusca just required a lack of pattern of any kind on the lip. Await correction by someone who knows more, though!

Sean

Sean

I thought for a variety to be valid it also needed a latin description etc. Anyway there seems to be one in the Scrugli and Grasso write up of fulvofusca, although the rest of the article seems to be in German so it's all double dutch to me!

I understand that in essence to qualify as fulvofusca the lip needs to be reddish-brown and lacking markings. It seems the colour of the lip is described to distinguish it from bicolor. See page 35 of BSBI news, #117, April 2011, for further details (not sure if that is available online at the BSBI website). Worth looking at if only for the photo of Peter's cracking 1983 plant.

Although Connor's plant resembles this variety in some aspects I don't think it qualifies, particularly as it retains the rather sharply demarcated basal shield and the two-tone colour, which more resembles bicolor.

All in all rather odd.

Rich M

Paul33 · Jun 16, 2014

lizard orchid said:
Got tip off to where to look in Bedford Purlieus for Fly orchid. Found two plants in fruit however one of these plants had the top bent over due to people not looking where they are treading.

Would love to see the Fly Orchids Brian ..... tried to PM you but your inbox is rammed !

Could you PM me with location details as its local to me ?

ihleach · Jun 16, 2014

very nice set, and very envious. Maybe next year for me.

the young hunter said:
Some from today out in the Broads area.

Mike

LizandDave · Jun 17, 2014

Yesterday I found several Fly Orchids in North Kent, nearly gone over but with the top flower still good.
I noticed one plant looked different with a lobed bump between the lower petals. Is this a hybrid/known variant or just within the normal Fly species?
Bee Orchids were growing within 20 yards of them.
Photos shows a usual specimen and then the odd looking one.
Thanks
Dave

MarkHows · Jun 17, 2014

Lancs / Cumbria

A few from last week

Mark

leptochila · Jun 17, 2014

Wales

Some more pictures I forgot to put up from a few sites around Wales. The Heath Fragrant is from today in the Elan Valley where I found a colony of 14 flowering plants in an old lake-side hay meadow full of a fantastic array of upland flowers - a stand of Globeflower was particularly impressive and new for me. The Lesser Butterflys are from a large population at the southern end of Cors Caron beside the Afon Teifi. The latter appears to be a strong population where both last year and this year they number in the hundreds growing out of tussock islands.

Mike

leptochila · Jun 17, 2014

ihleach said:
very nice set, and very envious. Maybe next year for me.

Thanks Iain!

Benjamin Ofield · Jun 17, 2014

I found 11 new bee orchids at a site near where I live in bristol, 2 actually in a wood and the rest just outside. None of the orchids outside seem to be in good condition or growing properly. Every bee orchid I've ever seen seems to be normal, would they be like this for a reason? Some are a lot more twisted and some orchids the flowers are all tangled up, this is one if the better ones.

IJS · Jun 17, 2014

rmielcarek said:
Sean

Although Connor's plant resembles this variety in some aspects I don't think it qualifies, particularly as it retains the rather sharply demarcated basal shield and the two-tone colour, which more resembles bicolor.

All in all rather odd.

Rich M

Interesting, so we are heading back to a 'bicolor' type for this unusual plant. Whatever it is, its a good find for Norfolk. 'Bicolor' isn't noted in the flora of Norfolk. The only bee variety noted in the flora is 'Chlorantha'. Connor's note of 'flavescens' is certainly of note too.

Ian

rmielcarek · Jun 17, 2014

IJS said:
Interesting, so we are heading back to a 'bicolor' type for this unusual plant. Whatever it is, its a good find for Norfolk. 'Bicolor' isn't noted in the flora of Norfolk. The only bee variety noted in the flora is 'Chlorantha'. Connor's note of 'flavescens' is certainly of note too.

Ian

I'm not really saying that Iain; as Sean has already said it is not a bicolor.

It's just a plant with an aberrant flower (by the way Connor were the other flowers the same?), which happens a lot with Bees, although not quite as dramatically as this example.

Rich M

Ghostly Vision · Jun 17, 2014

rmielcarek said:
I'm not really saying that Iain; as Sean has already said it is not a bicolor.

It's just a plant with an aberrant flower (by the way Connor were the other flowers the same?), which happens a lot with Bees, although not quite as dramatically as this example.

Rich M

Let's name a new one: bifusca!!

Latin description: Halfwayicus betwixt fulvofusca et bicolor

Sean

IJS · Jun 17, 2014

Ghostly Vision said:
Let's name a new one: bifusca!!

Latin description: Halfwayicus betwixt fulvofusca et bicolor

Sean

Yeah why not! I think its close but not actually bicolor.

Incidentally I was rushing in my earlier post so probably wasn't very clear in my meaning.

Ian

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