Scottish Independence (1 Viewer)

Andy1979 · Sep 10, 2014

If I kept and English list rather than British list, I'd only lose Capercaille, Red Grouse, Ptarmigan, Crested Tit, Golden Eagle and American Golden Plover, at least three of which I could get in England with some effort. But then I've never been to Shetland to pick up more specialities and don't twitch that far.

Now if we're talking about the environmental impact of a split, think of how much fuel (car/ferry/aviation) would be saved from not twitching Scotland. The sad thing would be the loss of income for Sheltand and others if 'British' birders no longer travelled to see rare birds in a foreign country...

Birdspotter · Sep 10, 2014

Thought some folk might like to see how we gotto this point 300 years later...had it worked Scotland and its territorie would have some bird list!

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofScotland/The-Darien-Scheme/

Egret · Sep 10, 2014

McMadd said:
If an independent Scotland has folk of Salmond's ilk in charge you can kiss wildlife goodbye!

Remember he's Trump's rentboy and SSSI's meant nothing in Aberdeens...

Of course we can always vote for the Tories or Labour next year. They all have a stunning record on conservation! No risk of any corruption there.

p.s. I am assuming that there is no one left who would still vote for the Liberals

Egret · Sep 10, 2014

cheshirebirder said:
Yes ,and I can visit reserves in a huge number of other countries . The difference is I don't expect to fund them all

We differ then; I am very happy that the RSPB does support "foreign" projects. Nor do I see any problem with the RSPB functioning on a "UK" basis. After all, the RNLI manages to cover the UK & Ireland already.

lewis20126 · Sep 10, 2014

djludlow said:
An English does have certain simplicity but looking at BUBO not many birders keep one . How many would there be over 500 ?

I keep a geographic B&I&IOM so my list is not affected by this stuff; however I suspect it would be well under 500 if I were to remove my ill gotten gains from foreign countries including Ireland (at least 10) and Scotland (estimate 30) to keep an "English List".

cheers, alan

halftwo · Sep 10, 2014

Capercaillie71 said:
I can't see Scotland having much interest in taking on overseas territories

Ha Ha Ha Ha :-O:-O

No, just like they won't be interested in North Sea oil reserves!

Wars are fought (are being fought) over precisely this.

Again the conservation status of several small islands could be adversely affected by a No vote - especially when you take into account the vast debt and deficit Scotland would immediately and increasingly accrue as the huge cost of such admin tasks as printing a new currency, new passports, re-negotiating EU membership, etc, etc, plus the devastation of billions being withdrawn by private firms and public bodies (already started)...
The conservation of Scotland's wildlife could be a casualty as a result - how could the new Govt. afford such niceties?

lewis20126 · Sep 10, 2014

halftwo said:
No, just like they won't be interested in North Sea oil reserves!

?

Most of these are territorially part of Shetland - Why would residents of Shetland want to feather the nests of the Edinburgh elites? I suspect this won't be the first independence vote...

Imagine Scottish birders having to remove those Shetland ticks..

cheers, a

Birdspotter · Sep 10, 2014

halftwo said:
Ha Ha Ha Ha :-O:-O

No, just like they won't be interested in North Sea oil reserves!

Wars are fought (are being fought) over precisely this.

Again the conservation status of several small islands could be adversely affected by a No vote - especially when you take into account the vast debt and deficit Scotland would immediately and increasingly accrue as the huge cost of such admin tasks as printing a new currency, new passports, re-negotiating EU membership, etc, etc, plus the devastation of billions being withdrawn by private firms and public bodies (already started)...
The conservation of Scotland's wildlife could be a casualty as a result - how could the new Govt. afford such niceties?

Might i point out to you that The Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank and Clydesdale Banks all print their own currency and have done so for centurys, so i cant see much added cost there in an independant country!!
As for your bit about going to war over oil, yes you are right regarding recent wars and conflict in Africa and The Middle East, but given the vast majority of UK oil reserves is situated in Scottish waters then i think the only ones who would be wanting to go to war over it resides south of the border!
I am not sure what the future holds for Scotland and the rest of the UK but will be voting Yes next week. If conservation suffers then so be it, it is a price worth paying i think!

lewis20126 · Sep 10, 2014

Birdspotter said:
Might i point out to you that The Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank and Clydesdale Banks all print their own currency and have done so for centurys, so i cant see much added cost there in an independant country!!

I don't expect those bank notes will be worth much - hard enough to change the things now. Scotland would be better off with the Euro and then Angela can help you with the bailout.

I suspect conservation in Scotland will take a hit - as countries always do, new or old, when plunged into a deep recession.

cheers, a

Foxy · Sep 10, 2014

I am not sure what the future holds for Scotland and the rest of the UK but will be voting Yes next week. If conservation suffers then so be it said:
Careful what you wish for. Economics and politics can be undone in time but once habitat has gone it is likely gone for ever, especially if it is given over to big business interests. Is that really a price worth paying?

Nutcracker · Sep 10, 2014

lewis20126 said:
I don't expect those bank notes will be worth much - hard enough to change the things now.

Most shops around here (Northumbs) accept them, though I'd guess that will stop if Scotland does vote for independence. If you had one then, you'd need to take it to a bank and pay £40 or so in transaction charges to get it changed.

Foxy · Sep 10, 2014

I once had a formal complaint from by a customer accusing my staff of fraud in trying to pass one off to her! It will only get worse......

lewis20126 · Sep 10, 2014

Nutcracker said:
Most shops around here (Northumbs) accept them, though I'd guess that will stop if Scotland does vote for independence. If you had one then, you'd need to take it to a bank and pay £40 or so in transaction charges to get it changed.

I would certainly have a clear out of them prior to the vote and move any money out of Scottish based banks. Whilst the £ will take a hit, some of this is already factored in (50% risk so 50% of the total drop?) and it won't be as bad as the drop in the value of Scottish assets.

With airline fuel priced in $$ flights to Shetland from Aberdeen are unlikely to get any cheaper until Scottish salaries drop.

cheers, alan

AlfArbuthnot · Sep 10, 2014

lewis20126 said:
I suspect conservation in Scotland will take a hit - as countries always do, new or old, when plunged into a deep recession.

cheers, a

Simple economies of scale. Smaller economies have smaller budgets, and a smaller pool of resources, facilities and talent. Places like St Kilda and other remote archipelagos could be more vulnerable to Edinburgh priorities in trying to rebalance and reestablish an economy in teh face of such turmoil and uncertainty. Supply and research vessels, and conservation staff, are relatively expensive. When it came to a golf course and a SSSI in a devolved situation we all saw which was more important to the SNP.

AlfArbuthnot · Sep 10, 2014

Birdspotter said:
Might i point out to you that The Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank and Clydesdale Banks all print their own currency and have done so for centurys, so i cant see much added cost there in an independant country!!

They print sterling, with a different picture on it. In the event of a Yes vote, Carney says that his Bank of England wont go into a currency union. So, sooner or later, those banks would have to recall every coin and note (be it Clydesdale or otherwise), and print/mint something else that wasn't sterling, to replace the entire standing currency. That would be very expensive.

I suppose the Scottish bank notes could be used as the Scottish tender on a temporary basis, as they'd be identifiable as Scottish, but then other sterling coins and notes would not be legal tender in Scotland, and the Scottish notes would not be legal tender in England. That would lead to a huge cost for the Scottosh bankls, and probably a huge drain of currency as the Queen's-head notes/coins were exchanged.

AlfArbuthnot · Sep 10, 2014

Nutcracker said:
Most shops around here (Northumbs) accept them, though I'd guess that will stop if Scotland does vote for independence. If you had one then, you'd need to take it to a bank and pay £40 or so in transaction charges to get it changed.

Currently you can demand that they be accepted. The only reason some staff don't accept them is that they are not familiar with them, and you just have to 'educate' them. But after a currency split they would be about as useful in England as Euros.

I virtually never see Scottish notes in the London area.

Andy Hurley · Sep 10, 2014

AlfArbuthnot said:
Currently you can demand that they be accepted. The only reason some staff don't accept them is that they are not familiar with them, and you just have to 'educate' them. But after a currency split they would be about as useful in England as Euros.

I virtually never see Scottish notes in the London area.

You demand all you want, I have never been able to use Scottish bank notes in the south of England. The shops and pubs refuse to accept them, so they have been treating the Scottish pound as a separate currency anyway. Normal banks in Germany don't accept them either, so servicemen and women returning to Germany after leave have to take to the central bank if the want to exchange them. Pound coins are minted with the thistle, rose, leek, and whatever NI have as their flower, so I don't see any problem with coins being minted as the old ones are slowly withdrawn from circulation. Maybe they will print the new ones with Scottish rarities, (I had to say something to stay on topic

). Or else take on the € and as a net contributor to the EU the change over of membership will happen and very quickly, Scotland will be one of the more stable countries in the € zone. It doesn't matter what the current Scottish Parliament think, its up to the elected government after indy has been achieved, not the current goverment to decide if Scotland goes into the €. I wouldn't listen to the 3 big English parties, because of their past track record under Thatcher that renaged on the promises made at the time of the devolution vote. In a rUK parliament, Labour will be without the Scots, who will all be redundant, thats why they are backing the no vote. Giving the Conservatives a free reign to privatise everything and to turn rUK in to the next American State, except NI which will return to the fold to keep the Irish Americans happy. Wales has no say as it is not a Kingdom, only a principality, and unless Plaid Cymru (spelling?) get elected in Wales they won't have a mandate for the question of independence.

AlfArbuthnot · Sep 10, 2014

So Labour is an 'English party' huh? Yet you say it relies on its Scottish MPs? Sounds like a strong union party to me. But please try and refrain from the anti-English political rhetoric - maybe that explains why people further south wont serve you?!

But never mind all this - the real question is what the hell is Springwatch/Autumnwatch going to do?!

If I don't have to see yet another Red Deer rut, or Gordon Buchanan cooing over a yet another bloody Otter on some windswept harbour, I think I'd back a Yes vote too.

wolfbirder · Sep 10, 2014

I think there will be a yes vote, which I am sad about but seriously can't blame the Scots for wanting independence.

They have like many English people, probably become extremely disillusioned by Westminster politicians, taking us into illegal wars and bringing in laws over many years that the majority of them found abhorrent (Poll Tax, bedroom tax etc). Its not the average English persons fault, but I suppose as Scots see it it is the English majority who determine the political outcome.

I really don't know how a yes vote will affect the average English person, very little I expect in reality, despite the press seige mentality.

Regards a Bird list, I am sure if BOU list removes most of those Scottish endemic species, people will have the choice whether to use that list or move to a newly-created Combined British Isles list (with decisions potentially made by both EOU/SOU, and EBRC/SBRC). Thats what I would want to keep anyway. It may infact lead to people using alternative lists from BUBO like the highly popular UK400 list - which of course will have to change its name to something else like England/Scotland/Wales400 list

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fugl · Sep 10, 2014

Here's what Paul Krugman has to say about the economic effects of Scottish independence. I have a lot of respect for Krugman's opinions in general but on this I hope he's wrong.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/o...l?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

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