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x32 SF: the waiting begins

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Old Tuesday 21st May 2019, 12:09   #51
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I guess I'll have to watch fewer birds and more TV to follow this.

I've had the 32FL and the 32SV for years and years. Still no comparison, for me anyway.

Zeiss must be working on an FL replacement. It would be foolish not to.

Mark
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Old Tuesday 21st May 2019, 12:18   #52
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"Once Upon a Time" , and "V" they variously all played parts ..... and "Lost" really did lose me - as a viewer !


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I think we can all agree 'Lost' lost the plot quite literally when it came to the final season. Still a fine imaginative show taken overall.

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Old Tuesday 21st May 2019, 12:24   #53
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I guess I'll have to watch fewer birds and more TV to follow this.

I've had the 32FL and the 32SV for years and years. Still no comparison, for me anyway.

Zeiss must be working on an FL replacement. It would be foolish not to.

Mark
You are so right Mark the overlong (138mm) and overweight (595g) glare-monster that is the EL SV is easily outshone by the compact (117mm) lightweight (550g) glare- and chromatic aberration-free Zeiss FL.

Lee
(Just yanking your chain Dude )
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Old Tuesday 21st May 2019, 14:28   #54
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Talking

"Dennis, I think you wrote this at a dizzying altitude way up in the Rockies , or you've been hanging out with folk who indulge in Colorado's "liberal" laws just a bit too much , coz that statement is just a little *ssbackwards (about 100% ! :). I know what you meant though."

You forget Marijuana is legal here!
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Old Tuesday 21st May 2019, 15:00   #55
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You are so right Mark the overlong (138mm) and overweight (595g) glare-monster that is the EL SV is easily outshone by the compact (117mm) lightweight (550g) glare- and chromatic aberration-free Zeiss FL.

Lee
(Just yanking your chain Dude )
That was a decidedly biased statement!
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Old Tuesday 21st May 2019, 15:02   #56
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Originally Posted by Kammerdiner View Post
I guess I'll have to watch fewer birds and more TV to follow this.

I've had the 32FL and the 32SV for years and years. Still no comparison, for me anyway.

Zeiss must be working on an FL replacement. It would be foolish not to.

Mark
Mark, I am curious why you kept 8x32 FL all these years if you think the 8x32 SV is superior?
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Old Tuesday 21st May 2019, 15:47   #57
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Mark, I am curious why you kept 8x32 FL all these years if you think the 8x32 SV is superior?
Sheer laziness Dennis. It is a sweet little bino but I'm too lazy to sell it.

My Porsche is 33 years old, and I still love it, but it's not first choice for a road trip.

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Old Tuesday 21st May 2019, 16:14   #58
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That was a decidedly biased statement!
Not at all Dennis, it was full of facts, mostly minor, none of which matter much to fans of the 32mm EL because it is a very fine bino.

Lee
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Old Wednesday 22nd May 2019, 19:24   #59
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"Once Upon a Time" , and "V" they variously all played parts ..... and "Lost" really did lose me - as a viewer !


Chosun
Looks like we really ran out of anything pertinent to be said about the actual topic of this thread.
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Old Wednesday 22nd May 2019, 21:03   #60
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Looks like we really ran out of anything pertinent to be said about the actual topic of this thread.
Amen.
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Old Wednesday 22nd May 2019, 21:30   #61
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Thats a very devious way to influence product development at Zeiss Tom

Lee

Lee, yes!

A friend told me long ago that the moment you buy a good piece of kit you must stop looking at magazines, press releases, advertising, as something else is bound to be released the day after!

Tom

Last edited by SeldomPerched : Thursday 23rd May 2019 at 05:22. Reason: Spelling
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Old Wednesday 22nd May 2019, 21:59   #62
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That's not the way Murphy's law works. You can't clean windows to make it rain. You can't buy FL either, so there's finally an SF.
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Old Wednesday 22nd May 2019, 23:43   #63
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I would wager that Zeiss will find a way to update and improve the optical performance when they design the 8x32 SF without significantly increasing it's size. Size and weight are obviously really important on a 32mm because that is one of the big reasons people are buying them over a 42mm. I think you expect a slight decrease in performance with the smaller aperture. It will be interesting to see if they can achieve any improvements in balance in the smaller frame 32mm like they did with the 42mm. That will be a challenge.
I don't know about that. Zeiss have small 8x covered well with the 8x25 Victory Pocket and the 8x32 Conquest. The binocular that is probably Zeiss's main competition in the alpha 8x class (Swarovski's 8x32 SV FP) is also fairly large for an 8x32, so IF an 8x32 SF comes out, I'd expect it to be bigger, but offer more field of view. The two hallmarks of the SF concept are ergonomics/balance and field of view, not compactness/small size. If a putative SF 8x32 is going to offer a meaningful increase in field of view over the current 8x32 FL (to, say, 150m - the same field of view as the Oberkochen era 8x30 porro - or a bit more) that will require larger prisms and a larger binocular to go with it. A larger binocular would also allow more space to position the focus wheel similarly to the existing SF models.
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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 01:09   #64
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I don't know about that. Zeiss have small 8x covered well with the 8x25 Victory Pocket and the 8x32 Conquest. The binocular that is probably Zeiss's main competition in the alpha 8x class (Swarovski's 8x32 SV FP) is also fairly large for an 8x32, so IF an 8x32 SF comes out, I'd expect it to be bigger, but offer more field of view. The two hallmarks of the SF concept are ergonomics/balance and field of view, not compactness/small size. If a putative SF 8x32 is going to offer a meaningful increase in field of view over the current 8x32 FL (to, say, 150m - the same field of view as the Oberkochen era 8x30 porro - or a bit more) that will require larger prisms and a larger binocular to go with it. A larger binocular would also allow more space to position the focus wheel similarly to the existing SF models.
Hello Patudo,

Are you writing that to improve the 8x32FL with larger FOV, they might have to increase weight and size, compensating with improved ergonomics? Is that a winning trade off for most 8x32mm users?

I understand that all binocular designs are compromises, which Zeiss recognised when it introduced the FL, and improvement over the ClassiC 8x30 in ruggedness and in optics. The FL was waterproof, controlled chromatic aberrations better, provided more light transmission with a slightly larger objective and improved coating, while still maintaining decent eye relief for those who wear spectacles. The same physical realities of an 8.5 FOV apply today as they did fifteen years, ago.

My guess is that Zeiss has spent much time and much effort on focus groups and on surveys to determine what could be marketable. My second guess is that the binocular may be designated 'SF,' but it won't be a scaled down 8x42 SF. The 8x30mm Classic did not have the same design as the 7x42 and 8x56; the 8x32 FL did not have the same design as the 7x42 and 8x42 FL's. Zeiss may be thinking outside the box. Actually, I hope that may be thinking about something rather different from the SF binoculars.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 05:31   #65
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That's not the way Murphy's law works. You can't clean windows to make it rain. You can't buy FL either, so there's finally an SF.
It's all perfectly paranormal...
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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 06:13   #66
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That's not the way Murphy's law works. You can't clean windows to make it rain.
No but it rains if you clean your car.

Lee
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Old Friday 24th May 2019, 06:28   #67
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One thing to bear in mind is that i suspect Zeiss surprised a lot of folks with the amazing Victory Pocket 8x25; imagine that scaled up to 32mm with an even wider FoV and better ER. They may be coming up in size, not coming down from the 42mm SF. Ok, the CA control is not quite as good in the Pocket, but the inclusion of HT glass may help....
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Old Tuesday 28th May 2019, 06:29   #68
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Cate Blanchett under the street light..... sigh...
I thought that was Marlene Dietrich. Wie einst Lili Marlene.
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Old Tuesday 28th May 2019, 07:29   #69
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I thought that was Marlene Dietrich. Wie einst Lili Marlene.
Yes this was the inspiration for my imagery. But we have digressed far enough down this avenue, so, back to binos...........


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Old Tuesday 28th May 2019, 07:38   #70
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Surely, on a cosmetically based theme, it has to be an open double bridge design in black, with the same focusing system, eyecups, balance and feel.
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Old Tuesday 28th May 2019, 07:55   #71
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Surely, on a cosmetically based theme, it has to be an open double bridge design in black, with the same focusing system, eyecups, balance and feel.
To keep the family resemblance, yes, but I am hoping for better eyecups and note that SF42 has three bridges not two, which I also hope will feature on SF32.

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Old Tuesday 28th May 2019, 18:36   #72
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To keep the family resemblance, yes, but I am hoping for better eyecups and note that SF42 has three bridges not two, which I also hope will feature on SF32.

Lee
So is it going to be a design to keep in line with the "family"? Or should emphasis be on ergonomics? Considering the compact size of the present x32 FL models, I think open bridges will not really fill the bill.
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Old Wednesday 29th May 2019, 07:16   #73
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So is it going to be a design to keep in line with the "family"? Or should emphasis be on ergonomics? Considering the compact size of the present x32 FL models, I think open bridges will not really fill the bill.
This is pure speculation of course because we have no hint from Zeiss as to whether they will favour an open hinge or not. In fact we only have the barest info that there will even be an SF32 at all.

But addressing your point Robert, which is absolutely valid, choosing between open hinge and closed will depend on which part of 'ergonomics' they consider most important. Will it be handling they prioritise or size?

When I slide three fingers around the barrel of an SF42, just under the second bridge, my first finger falls directly on the focus wheel without having to bend my finger or shuffle my hand position. For me, this is excellent ergonomics, and if it could be duplicated on a 32mm bino, without (and this is your point) making it too large, then this could be a desirable feature.

Opticron's open hinge Savanna 32mm is only 10mm longer than FL32 and Ultravid32. Is this 10mm too much or does it depend on how nicely the bino functions in the hand? And of course the question of weight plays a part in this balancing act.

The leading question here is how large is too large?

And I cheerfully admit to a confusing conflict of opinion in my own mind about the overall question here because I do love the handling and feel of, for example, Meopta's closed hinge MeoStar 8x32.

Lee
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Old Wednesday 29th May 2019, 07:50   #74
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Hi Lee,

I was actually hoping you could get some more 'hard' info about the development of the SF 32:
1. Will Zeiss develop one?
2. If so, how far are they in the process?
3. If so, do they have a (vague) planning to bring it to the market?

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Old Wednesday 29th May 2019, 09:34   #75
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I know the answers !! :)





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