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Minox 10x42(44), which one is the best? (1 Viewer)

spacepilot

Well-known member
I'm looking for a pair of full size 10x glasses for general birding, long range and in the woods. The Minox BV 10x42, BD 10x42 BR ASPH, and BD BP 10x44 all look interesting to me. However, there's no place nearby that I can try them out. It would be greatly appreciated if you can relate your experience with the bins to help me make the decision. Also, I wear eyeglasses, so if you can let me know if you find them glass-friendly, it would be great! Advice about other good candidates are also welcome. Anyway, here are some of the concerns I have.

The BV 10x42 are probably the most versatile on paper, as they have a wide field and focus down to 4 feet. But I'm concerned if the aberrations are low enough to make them usable at such close range. My 8x Cascades porros are very sharp on center, but because of the sharpness fall-off at the outer edges, and compounded by the wide-set objective barrels, there's always at one barrel that has a fuzzy image when I look at close objects. So can you really use the binoculars within 10 feet comfortably?

The BD 10x42 probably should deliver better image than the BV, but also have a narrower field and longer focus. So how does it compare to the BV, especially in the field?

I expect the BD BP 10x44 to be very similar to my 8x Cascades porros, only in 10x. But the focuser is a little bit too slow, and the images from the barrels sometimes get disjoint at close range because of wide-set barrels and aberrations. Despite the shortcomings, they do provide very good center image at an affordable price. So has anyone compared the BV or BD roofs to the BD BP porros?

Thanks.
Ning
 
I'm looking for a pair of full size 10x glasses for general birding, long range and in the woods. The Minox BV 10x42, BD 10x42 BR ASPH, and BD BP 10x44 all look interesting to me. However, there's no place nearby that I can try them out. It would be greatly appreciated if you can relate your experience with the bins to help me make the decision. Also, I wear eyeglasses, so if you can let me know if you find them glass-friendly, it would be great! Advice about other good candidates are also welcome. Anyway, here are some of the concerns I have.

The BV 10x42 are probably the most versatile on paper, as they have a wide field and focus down to 4 feet. But I'm concerned if the aberrations are low enough to make them usable at such close range. My 8x Cascades porros are very sharp on center, but because of the sharpness fall-off at the outer edges, and compounded by the wide-set objective barrels, there's always at one barrel that has a fuzzy image when I look at close objects. So can you really use the binoculars within 10 feet comfortably?

The BD 10x42 probably should deliver better image than the BV, but also have a narrower field and longer focus. So how does it compare to the BV, especially in the field?

I expect the BD BP 10x44 to be very similar to my 8x Cascades porros, only in 10x. But the focuser is a little bit too slow, and the images from the barrels sometimes get disjoint at close range because of wide-set barrels and aberrations. Despite the shortcomings, they do provide very good center image at an affordable price. So has anyone compared the BV or BD roofs to the BD BP porros?

Thanks.
Ning

Ning,

You either have a bad sample 8x Cascades porro or it's misaligned, because the edges were very good on the sample I tried.

The focuser was awful, took two fingers to turn it, and I didn't like that thin, finger pricking diopter wheel on the focuser, but the ergonomics are second to none, even better than the SE, IMO.

But the 6.5* FOV at 8x made me claustrophobic. If they had a 7.5* FOV and a smoother focuser, I would have kept them and endured the spiny diopter wheel.

However, if you can live with the FOV of the Cascades, the 10x Minox porro should work for you, because you won't have to be concerned about the field collapsing at close distance since you will be using them at long range.

Roofs hold up better at close focus, because of the close set barrels.

It really comes down to whether you like the more 3-D effect of porros and if you can hold them easier than roofs OR if you are willing to deal with smaller ergonomics and less 3-D views of roofs for a more pleasing close focus.

Minox roofs are very small. Minox is well known for their miniature cameras. I read somewhere that the "Min..." in Minox derives from the same word as "mini".

I suggest you send the 8x Cascades for repairs (do you have a warranty?) if you really like it, or if not, send it back back for a refund.

Then take a close look at either a Minox 8x33 HG roof (the edges are good from what I've read, but double check that factoid - $399 at Camera Land) or a Meopta 8x32 roof (ditto - see Frank D's review below) as replacements or additions.

The 8x32 Meoptas were selling at a reduced price at Cabelas, but I don't see them now on their Website.

The full sized Minox HGs have too small FOV for their price point, IMO.

I haven't tried either mid-sized roof yet, though I hope to take a look at the Meopta soon.

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=14996

The mid-sized roofs will give you very close focusing capability w/out the collapsed field and overlapping barrel shadows of porros.

Re: 10x roofs. I've yet to meet a 10x roof I've liked except the EDG, but that's priced in the Zeissosphere.

For a 10x bin, I'd go with a porro. Buy one of those 10x42 SEs that foxrancher is selling (see thread - 2 SEs for sale). You'd have to go to alpha class to find as good optics in a 10x bin.

But only buy a 10x bin if you know you can hold 10x steady, otherwise, you're wasting your money. I can see more detail with a 8x32 SE than a 10x42 SE, because of the shakes.

Just a thought... (stole that from Capn' Cook :).

Brock
 
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Brock, maybe "disjoint images" at close range was too strong a phrase that I used. "Overlapping barrel shadows" probably better describe what I see. Actually, when I was talking about the Cascades porros, I was using the SE images as a reference. Of course the Cascades are going to fall short on the edge sharpness in comparison. I got them from FrankD, who looked through them before sending them to me, so they are probably in pretty good order. What I do find is the Cascades image degrades more at twilight than the SE's, probably because the dilation of my pupils decrease the DOF perception of my eyes, which in turn makes the curvature of the Cascades image more bothersome and the "overlapping shadows" more obvious. On the other hand, the SE's delivers in almost any situation, near or far, a natural view that makes you forget you are looking through a pair of binoculars.

I realize now my goal of finding a pair of 10x roofs under $300 that provide a view than at least as good as the Cascades porros in long range, and usable close focus, might be mission impossible. These SE's really spoiled me good ;) . Hmm, maybe it's time to start saving for a pair of 10x EDG, or FL, or whatever floating around in the Zeissosphere.

Ning
 
You can get the Minox BD 8.5X42 BR Asphericals for $249
You can get the Minox BD 10X42 BR Asperhicals for $299

Smoking deals from Camera Land in New York...
 
Aaron, funny you replied, I was just reading your review of your new bins in the equipment review section. How is the off-axis sharpness of the BD BR? Where does the sharpness start to fall off?

Ning
 
Really just at the edge of the view. They are really remarkable... The more I use them the more I am amazed. The CA or the off-axis sharpness is negligable in my opinion... the reason i even mentioned it is due to the reports I have read about some CA present. I wouldn't have noticed it but I am learning more about binoculars and knew to look for it. I really cannot believe i got these for $250. I may purchace more of them.
Aaron
 
Brock, maybe "disjoint images" at close range was too strong a phrase that I used. "Overlapping barrel shadows" probably better describe what I see. Actually, when I was talking about the Cascades porros, I was using the SE images as a reference. Of course the Cascades are going to fall short on the edge sharpness in comparison. I got them from FrankD, who looked through them before sending them to me, so they are probably in pretty good order. What I do find is the Cascades image degrades more at twilight than the SE's, probably because the dilation of my pupils decrease the DOF perception of my eyes, which in turn makes the curvature of the Cascades image more bothersome and the "overlapping shadows" more obvious. On the other hand, the SE's delivers in almost any situation, near or far, a natural view that makes you forget you are looking through a pair of binoculars.

I realize now my goal of finding a pair of 10x roofs under $300 that provide a view than at least as good as the Cascades porros in long range, and usable close focus, might be mission impossible. These SE's really spoiled me good ;) . Hmm, maybe it's time to start saving for a pair of 10x EDG, or FL, or whatever floating around in the Zeissosphere.

Ning

Ning,

Yes, the Cascades I tried had a longer close focus than spec, and I could clearly notice the overlapping barrel shadows at close range. Made me feel like I was cross eyed.

Roofs, due to the less parallax effect of their close set barrels are much better at focusing close.

Btw, the BD 10x44 BP porro is on sale @ B & H Photo for $259. They normally sell for btwn $499-$529:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/404637-USA/Minox_62151_10x44_BD_BP_Binocular.html

These are allegedly made in Japan vs. China for the Leupolds, but I haven't been able to confirm that for certain.

From what I've read the diopter on the focuser is better than the spiny, finger pricking thin diopter wheel on the Cascades, which I didn't like.

The cap pops up like on the EDG, but on the Minox, it apparently works correctly.

My only beef is the narrowish FOV (5.1*).
 
Yes, Brock, I imagine the 10x BD BP optics would be as good as as my 8x cascades porros, only with greater magnification. The 5.1 degree fov is the only thing that's holding me back from getting a pair. Maybe I should pony up and try the 10x Zen ED...

With regarding the county of origin of the bins, my Cascades porros have "Made in Japan" on the rubber armor. If the BD BP's are make in Japan as well, seeing how they are the only internal focusing porros, I imagine the Cascades and BD BP's are probably even assembled in the same Japanese plant.

Ning
 
Sorry I missed this discussion earlier. Both the BD BP and the Cascade porros are made in Japan. I had both at the same time last year.

For all purposes they appeared to be the same binocular internally. Minox may have used "their coatings" and Leupold theirs but I could not split the two images if you asked me to.

Not to downplay the performance of the Minoxs but I would try to find a pair of the Leupold 10x42s instead. My reasoning is fairly simple. The Cascades are several ounces lighter and significantly more ergonomic. The heavier rubber armor on the Minoxs did not feel anywhere near as comfortable as that of that Cascades.
 
Thanks, Ning and Frank. They were discussing Leupold roofs on the "Why are prices plummeting?" Minox thread, and someone mentioned that one of those roofs is now being made in China so I wasn't sure about the Cascades porros.

However, I did suspect that the Minox BD BP (why can't they think of names for their bins? instead of confusing designations with all those "Bs") and the Cascades porros were the same (or one reversed engineered from the other), and had a debate about this with Rick on the other thread (or I thought I was having a debate about these bins :).

In any case, if someone thinks that the Minox has better "pedigree" because it has a German name badge, they can now purchase one for a little more than the price of the Cascades.

My original point on the other thread was that I thought the $549 list price for the Minox version (usually around $459-$499 retail) was too high given that you can get basically the same design in the Cascades.

Better ergonomics from what Frank says, and though I haven't tried the Minox, I really liked the ergonomics on the Cascades.

However, I didn't like the feel of right diopter wheel nor did I think it was well built (could eventually break).

From what I've read, Minox seems to have a done a better job with that than Leupold (and even Nikon's EDG) with its pop off cap design.

For that reason, I could see the Minox selling their internal focus porros for a bit more, but not $300 more.

So at least temporarily with the sale, Minox has leveled the playing field, and someone is going to buy a truckload of these and then resell them for a profit on eBay. Probably a Ferengi :).
 
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Frank, the Minox do look bulkier than the Cascades. I am probably not going to get either in the end. I've recently got a pair of 10x42 SE and been enjoying them a lot. I've been thinking about getting a pair of water-proof 10x as backup. But the 5 degree of fov of the 10x BD BP and Cascades are just a little too narrow. I'll just stick with the 8x Cascades for bad weather for now, when I save up for a pair of Meostar or used FL or whatever. How does the Cascades fare in the winter? The SE focuser is already stiffening up in the 40-degree weather, but not nearly as bad as the Yosemite.

Ning
 
Ning - Have had both the Minox and Leupold WP porros in both 8 & 10 power. Agree with Frank that the Leupold ergonomics are better. Weighed both and the Minox is about 4 ounces heavier. More rubber and 44 MM objective lens. Theoretically, it should be a tad brighter. I can't see the difference. The Minox has a nicer case. You mentioned using binocular in the woods. This is where both the Leupold and Minox shine with their great depth of field. I have a NIB Minox 8x44 porro for sale if anyone out their in BF land wants one. John
 
Ning - Have had both the Minox and Leupold WP porros in both 8 & 10 power. Agree with Frank that the Leupold ergonomics are better. Weighed both and the Minox is about 4 ounces heavier. More rubber and 44 MM objective lens. Theoretically, it should be a tad brighter. I can't see the difference. The Minox has a nicer case. You mentioned using binocular in the woods. This is where both the Leupold and Minox shine with their great depth of field. I have a NIB Minox 8x44 porro for sale if anyone out their in BF land wants one. John

John,

Could you please explain how the diopter focuser works on the Minox? And post some pix if possible?

In the review I posted a link to, the reviewer only said that the focuser cap pops up to access the diopter adjustment.

How is the diopter adjusted? The EDG has a flat metal band on the focuser with shallow indented hash marks for the diopter settings (hard to see w/out turning the top of the bins toward you) whereas the Leupold has a thin, plastic wheel in front of the focuser cap (the settings are easy to see but the thin, spiny wheel was not easy or comfortable to turn).

Does the diopter adjust the right EP like the EDG or left EP like the Leupold?

Is the focuser smooth on the Minox? The Cascades I tried had a stiff focuser, took two fingers to turn it.

Thanks.
 
Hi Brock - I have the two glasses side by side and will describe the differences.
1. Power - both are 8 power
2. Objective lens - Leupold 42 MM - Minox 44 MM
3. Weight - the Minox weigh approximately 4 ounces more - more rubber covering and
wider obj. lens by 2 MM.
4. Ergonomics - of course this is subjective, but to my hands the Leupold fits slightly
better. The shoulders of the Minox are more square. Also, the Minox lower shelf area goes to the barrel connection, whereas the Leupold begins to taper inward. The net effect is that the end cap which allows for disassembly protudes from the Leupold, but is flush with the Minox. The possibility damaging the Minox cap is lessened.
FOV - Identical
Coatings - Both are greenish with just a tiny bit of difference - perhaps the Argon
gas in the Minox is the difference.
Internal construction - Both binoculars appear to have the same construction when
viewed from the objective end.
Twist up eye caps - Both twist up but the Minox has raised ridges on the outside of
the caps which helps when raising and lowering. The Leupold caps are smooth.
Also, the Minox caps are flat on the end, allowing the eye to get slightly closer to
the ocular glass.
Diopter adjustment - both adjust the same in terms of the lift up cap and both
adjust for the left eye. However, there are several differences. The Minox cap i is all metal with an indentation to assist when turning the cap. The Leupold has
raised rubber ridges to create friction on the forefinger. Both turn with ease.
However, the Minox is easier to mark because with the cap popped forward, a
white dot has white lines on either side of the lower body, whereas the Leupold
only has a white dot for reference. The turning mechanism of the wheel is
different. The Minox is larger outside diameter (slight mechanical advantage) and
has raised rubber ridges protuding every quarter inch. More elegant in
appearance. The Leupold has a raised rubber ridge covering. Both are effective.
Both are equally smooth.,

Resolution - I can tell no difference between the two binoculars. Both give a
Nikon SE 90% view with a softning on the edge. Of course the FOV is narrower.
I might mention that both glasses will provide more detail at last light than will my
Zeiss 8x32 FL, showing the difference an extra 10 MM of glass makes.

Accessories - The Minox has a nicer case.

Sorry for no pictures. My hook up for my camera is on the blitz.

Hope this gives you some useful information.

John
 
Hi Brock - I have the two glasses side by side and will describe the differences.
1. Power - both are 8 power
2. Objective lens - Leupold 42 MM - Minox 44 MM
3. Weight - the Minox weigh approximately 4 ounces more - more rubber covering and
wider obj. lens by 2 MM.
4. Ergonomics - of course this is subjective, but to my hands the Leupold fits slightly
better. The shoulders of the Minox are more square. Also, the Minox lower shelf area goes to the barrel connection, whereas the Leupold begins to taper inward. The net effect is that the end cap which allows for disassembly protudes from the Leupold, but is flush with the Minox. The possibility damaging the Minox cap is lessened.
FOV - Identical
Coatings - Both are greenish with just a tiny bit of difference - perhaps the Argon
gas in the Minox is the difference.
Internal construction - Both binoculars appear to have the same construction when
viewed from the objective end.
Twist up eye caps - Both twist up but the Minox has raised ridges on the outside of
the caps which helps when raising and lowering. The Leupold caps are smooth.
Also, the Minox caps are flat on the end, allowing the eye to get slightly closer to
the ocular glass.
Diopter adjustment - both adjust the same in terms of the lift up cap and both
adjust for the left eye. However, there are several differences. The Minox cap i is all metal with an indentation to assist when turning the cap. The Leupold has
raised rubber ridges to create friction on the forefinger. Both turn with ease.
However, the Minox is easier to mark because with the cap popped forward, a
white dot has white lines on either side of the lower body, whereas the Leupold
only has a white dot for reference. The turning mechanism of the wheel is
different. The Minox is larger outside diameter (slight mechanical advantage) and
has raised rubber ridges protuding every quarter inch. More elegant in
appearance. The Leupold has a raised rubber ridge covering. Both are effective.
Both are equally smooth.,

Resolution - I can tell no difference between the two binoculars. Both give a
Nikon SE 90% view with a softning on the edge. Of course the FOV is narrower.
I might mention that both glasses will provide more detail at last light than will my
Zeiss 8x32 FL, showing the difference an extra 10 MM of glass makes.

Accessories - The Minox has a nicer case.

Sorry for no pictures. My hook up for my camera is on the blitz.

Hope this gives you some useful information.

John

John,

Thanks for that detailed comparison. If the narrowish FOV were not an issue, it sounds like it would come down to personal preferences, which I think would be hard to tell without having tried both.
 
I'm looking for a pair of full size 10x glasses for general birding, long range and in the woods. The Minox BV 10x42, BD 10x42 BR ASPH, and BD BP 10x44 all look interesting to me. However, there's no place nearby that I can try them out. It would be greatly appreciated if you can relate your experience with the bins to help me make the decision. Also, I wear eyeglasses, so if you can let me know if you find them glass-friendly, it would be great! Advice about other good candidates are also welcome. Anyway, here are some of the concerns I have.

The BV 10x42 are probably the most versatile on paper, as they have a wide field and focus down to 4 feet. But I'm concerned if the aberrations are low enough to make them usable at such close range. My 8x Cascades porros are very sharp on center, but because of the sharpness fall-off at the outer edges, and compounded by the wide-set objective barrels, there's always at one barrel that has a fuzzy image when I look at close objects. So can you really use the binoculars within 10 feet comfortably?

The BD 10x42 probably should deliver better image than the BV, but also have a narrower field and longer focus. So how does it compare to the BV, especially in the field?

I expect the BD BP 10x44 to be very similar to my 8x Cascades porros, only in 10x. But the focuser is a little bit too slow, and the images from the barrels sometimes get disjoint at close range because of wide-set barrels and aberrations. Despite the shortcomings, they do provide very good center image at an affordable price. So has anyone compared the BV or BD roofs to the BD BP porros?

Thanks.
Ning

Hi all,

just for the case you haven't seen it on the Minox website: Minox brings out a new 10x44 binoculars, the BL 10x44 BR (and BL 8x44 BR) with an open hinge.

http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=3751&L=2

Of course this doesn't make the decision easier, but maybe it is worth to have a look at it.

Markus
 
Hi all,

just for the case you haven't seen it on the Minox website: Minox brings out a new 10x44 binoculars, the BL 10x44 BR (and BL 8x44 BR) with an open hinge.

http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=3751&L=2

Of course this doesn't make the decision easier, but maybe it is worth to have a look at it.

Markus

These new Minox's look a lot like Nikon Monarchs but without the central rod between the barrels.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/nikon/nikon-monarch-x-10-5x45-binocular

Bob
 
Hi all,

just for the case you haven't seen it on the Minox website: Minox brings out a new 10x44 binoculars, the BL 10x44 BR (and BL 8x44 BR) with an open hinge.

http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=3751&L=2

Of course this doesn't make the decision easier, but maybe it is worth to have a look at it.

Markus

Markus,

I would have preferred if Minox had expanded the FOV of their BP porros; however, the Nikon open-bridge EDG roof was comfortable and stable to handle, so the new open bridge Minox roofs might be a lower cost alternative.

Although part of what makes the EDG comfortable is the shallow thumb indents, and the description of the Neu BL BR doesn't mention thumb indents.

Do you know what the specs are on these Neu line of Minox bins?

When I click on the "technical data" link under or on top of the description, it shows me the specs for the new 8x32 BR, not the Neu 8x44.

However, the description states that the Neu 8x44 has a 16% larger FOV. 16% larger than what? The 8x44 BP porros? Or the BL 8x42 BR roofs? It's not clear. Their letter terminology is confusing enough!

Well, it doesn't matter since the 8x BP porros and 8x BR roofs have the same FOV - 6.5*. A 16% increase would make the Neu BL BR 7.5*, which I could live with - if the price was reasonable, and if they were very sharp on axis, and if they did not sacrifice edge performance for the gain in FOV.

Lots of ifs. One more - if you have more information about this bin, please share it.

Thanks!
 
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Hi,

here are the specs of the new BL binoculars I've found so far:


Specifications Minox BL 8x44:

Magnification: 8x
Front lens diameter: 44 mm
Exit pupil: 5.25 mm
Twilight number: 18.8
Field of view: 136 m/1.000 m
Eye relief: 19.5 mm
Close distance: 2.5 m
Diopter adjustment: + / - 4 dpt
Operating temperature: -10 - +50 ° C
Waterproof: Yes, up to 5 m
Height, Width, Depth: 13,3 x 5,3x 15 cm
Weight: 740 g


Specifications Minox BL 10x44:

Magnification: 10x
Front lens diameter: 44 mm
Exit pupil: 4.4 mm
Twilight number: 21.0
Field of view: 115 m/1.000 m
Eye relief: 17 mm
Close distance: 2.5 m
Diopter adjustment: + / - 4 dpt
Operating temperature: -10 - +50 ° C
Waterproof: Yes, up to 5 m
Height, width, depth: 13,3 x 5,3 x 15 cm
Weight: 740 g

Best regards,
Markus
 
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