• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Recorders And Committee's (1 Viewer)

Steve

Member
Staff member
United Kingdom
Do you think they ever get it wrong?
Do you think that they are questioning the finders integrity?
Do you think it discourages birder's to report their finds?

Discuss.
 
Yes
Yes
Yes

But it seems to me that 2 is a neccessary hurdle and 3 a result if this.
Sightings of rarities have to be questioned in great detail as I'm sure that even the 'experts' miss-identify a bird on occasion. Most bird watchers aren't experts and so any identification must be regarded with some doubt. To my mind the more witnesses the better, if practical an 'expert' should be called to see the bird and more use/ acceptance should be made of photographic evidence, which from what I heard, seems to be often dismissed out of hand or held in low regard - always provided it is of decent quality.
 
I do take on board what you are saying Ian and agree really. However if your face does not fit in the local group you do not stand much of a chance.

burhinus
 
I know exactly what you mean. I know of several clubs of various types like that myself, where certain 'elitist' members seem to take control. Identifications have got to be shown to be beyond reproach where they are to be accepted as national records but personally, I think help should be given to asssist in authenticating a sighting, rather than the negative attitude that some seem to have. It sometimes appears that people are jealous that someone else found something special, rather than rejoicing that the potential rarity has been found in their locality.
 
I think that good records are rejected,but would defend the cautious nature of record assessment.I'm not sure about whether or not personality comes into it(in theory,it shouldn't,but I'd say it has to come in to it sometimes,esp.if the bird being reported is an extreme rarity)
I also think that it is important to have a good line of communication between a committee and the "rank-and-file" birders,as they are dependent on the goodwill of the latter with regard to receiving submissions.I personally always send in anything good that I happen to find,but understand that others may not wish to do so:this is a shame,but there is no compulsion to submit!
 
The situation we have arrived at where integrity is questioned is a result of our own making- we honour birders who find rare birds, and as a result there is a temptation to string records, whether it is out and out stringing or just adding one or two finer details to convince other birders that the bird in question was seen well enough to be identified. Committees have to decided whether or not there is any embelishment on a record.
I suspect the situation would be vastly improved if the birder's name was not published alongside the record in bird reports. I know that there are one or two counties that operate this way- does it improve the competitive element?
In the old days (I mean the old days!) records were accepted without question, and stood on their own merits as descriptions without committees discussing "what sort of birder is he / she?"
Maybe hankering back to a (possibly mythical) code of honour is completely unrealistic!
 
wildlifeweb

Yes, we live in a society which worships celebrity in all fields and there are some who will go to great lengths to retain their status even if it means a bit of dishonesty!
In the 'old days' identification aids (books etc) left a lot to be desired compared to today's texts, so people relied on descriptions and sketches done in the field to communicate their observations. This required a fair amount of knowledge and skill.
These days, in theory, anyone could put together a superb description of a rare sighting as there is so much data available, even down to where and when there is a chance of a particular species turning up!
I can't see the pleasure derived from this but I'm sure there are those who couldn't give two hoots about honesty and so the 'code of honour' goes straight out of the window.


paj
 
Yes, Yes, Yes.


The situation is not confined to rare birds.
Many years ago I found a male Red breasted Merganser and informed the recorder. I was asked if I was sure and when I said I was, he suggested that I had seen a male Goosander which had been seen in the area for the last 2 weeks (both species are unusual in the area I was watching). The bird remained a few days and a friend of mine also saw it and reported it. A couple of years later when the bird report for this particular year appeared (yes, it does take years(plural) - for any overseas readers of this board), the bird was reported with my friends name along side it (I did not mind that) and there was no mention of the Goosander which had apparently been seen by several people. My interpretation was that because the Goosander is more likely to occur here, it was misidentified and my friend (an excellent birder with 10's of years experience), being a 'trusted' observer had the report accepted.
Another example admittedly with a rarer bird. I reported a bird and the sighting was rejected. Six months later, I learned that someone else had reported the same bird a few minutes after I had gone from the hide (I was the only one there at the time). To this day I do not know who the other person was and I suspect that he/she does not know of my report but the bird was not accepted from either of us. My family, who were not into birding and therefore were unbiased, suggested that I was wasting my time in reporting such events.

Colin
 
I've been a birder for quarter of a century or more but I'm still curious - how is a County Recorder appointed? Is there some sort of national authority which appoints such officials and what qualifications are required? Does it depend on one's birding ability, professional qualications or what?
 
in the case of rare birds - certainly down here in the South-West, and I suspect in many other counties too, the recorder is not the person who has the final decision. The recorder is just what the name implies - the person who records the birds. For county rarities there is a rarities panel made up of local birders - decided by ballot of the bird club members. The recorder's post is up for ballot every year at the Society AGM - they can be replaced if people feel strongly about them! For national rarities of course there is the BBRC.

In my own county - Cornwall, the recorder is at the moment going through thousands of accepted records of scarce birds (ie Goshawk) and deleting those which were not accompanied by a supporting description. There was a supposition in the past that records by certain people could be accepted as 'good'. This is no longer the case, and all rare or scarce birds now have to be described.

Of course a local committee, made up of people who spend hours in the field, is going to have opinions on who is reliable and who is not, and on whether a record is likely or no - Twenty rare birds from one observer seen by no-one else will set alarm bells ringing, just as a December Tawny Pipit will be viewed differently to a September Tawny Pipit.

'good' birds will be rejected and individuals will feel aggrieved - it's happened to me! However it does give the list, be it national, county or local, a degree of integrity which it would not otherwise have.
 
Reporting

I discovered a locally rare "Little Gull" in my area but kind of got ignored when I reported it. That was 8 or ten years ago and I just can't report to them anymore. Like getting spanked for something you thought you did good. That same bird was reported by someone else the very next day right down the beach.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 22 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top