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Tree Sparrow WIP (1 Viewer)

Painter-Lynne

Active member
Hi. New to this forum so forgive if I've got the wrong section - happy to be guided to where I should post my question.

My question relates to the concept thumbnail sketch below:
treeSparrows.jpg


Q: Would Tree Sparrows ever perch this close together?

Any other comments are welcome. I intend to develop this thumbnail into an initial sketch before committing to the final painting. Expect to invest a lot of time in it, so I want to get things right, now. Anyone see anything wrong with the birds' attitudes/proportions etc?

Thanks for sharing your expertise.
 
Welcome to Birdforum.

Tree Sparrows are a colony birds so would hang around together..possibly even more of them.

Can't really give you any tips on the painting, hopefully some of our artists will be along soon.
 
Hi Marmot - thanks for the welcome.
Your reply is just the ticket - I'm here primarily for expertise on birds, so thank you for taking the time. I wasn't sure if the wildlife art section was the right section to post this in because I wanted bird behaviour expertise. (Artists here are very welcome to comment - I'll just make clear - as I don't see that you can be an artist without such expertise.)

Though sociable birds, I'm a little concerned (because I've not observed it myself) that putting them so close is not an accurate portrayal of their behaviour. I'll take the tack that if no one says 'no way would they' then it's ok.

An image showing a whole line of birds is one I've already identified for the future.

Another Q:
After pondering the thumbnail, I'm concerned the birds look too heavy. I'm inclined to straighten the washing line.

And another Q (last one):
Does the posture of the bird on the right of the image look awkward to anyone?

Thanks again
 
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Hi, Welcometo birdforum, I've got to say that I haven't seen tree sparrows sitting that closely, and I think they would prefer to keep their personal space around them, however I do like this composition a lot. Could you not play with the perspectives to have the two birds 'together', with one a few centimetres behind the other. As for posture, I just think maybe you need to look at the tail on the right-hand bird, as it looks to be sprouting from in between the birds legs, or perhaps it's my eyes that are a bit squiffy.

My advice would be, dive in and paint it, and not worry too much about accuracy, looking forward to seeing how you progress with this one, keep us posted.

Nick
 
Hello Nick
Thank you for your comments - constructive comments are of great value.

Tend to agree with you, that the birds probably prefer their personal space. Contemplating putting the image in Winter mode (frost on the washing line; white, grey & blue background)... or suggesting evening, preparing to roost.. don't know what their roosting habits are. I'd prefer to keep it simple, though, and not tackle frost, or evening glow just yet, as the birds will be challenge enough. I know what I can chew.

I'm intrigued by the idea of using 'perspective', a useful practical suggestion, see where you're coming from, I'd have not thought of that. I'll have a scribble. Thank you.

Tail - yes, believe you're right. I'm not referring to one specific reference, but to a number, so I'm sure I'm out - hence feel the need to do another sketch rather than diving in (perhaps I'm just custard).

Thanks again.
 
not so much a bird opinion but in relation to your suggestion of straightening the line a little. I would leave it slack as rarely if ever would you see the line straight even when completly empty. The natural lie is a slack line.

John.
 
Hello Lynne.. On behalf of all the staff and moderators, welcome to BirdForum.Enjoy yourself here. Please feel free to join in whenever you feel like it.
 
Hi Lynn - welcome to the forum. I think your image has a lot of charm and, whimsical though it may be, seems pretty true to life also. I just wonder why you are adding an extra anthropomorphic element with the washing line? The straight line reduces the opportunities for a dynamic composition and perhaps replacing it with a twig or two would introduce a more naturalistic and compositionally interesting aspect?
I like the hatching in the background, too - nice and subtle.
Great start.
 
Hi - thank you for all these comments - excellent.

CHKM8 - thank you. I take on board what you're saying and will ponder some more. You're right. The sketch I'm posting now I did before I read your comment, so I may go back to a more slack line.

John N - thank you. I believe in giving something in return for something received.

Tim
whimsical though it may be, seems pretty true to life also
Nail on the head - that's what I was aiming for - I thought the image might be a goer. You are right about the washing line, I thought it would add something different... and was aiming for a very minimal composition to really focus on the birds themselves. I'm thinking about it again though now, because you are right - this is what I came here seeking: comments like these (all above). I like being prompted to think through my work, and to think why, precisely, I'm choosing to show something this way or that way. Excellent. I hope you guys (and any gals) will continue to give me the benefit of your views.

I've amended the thumbnail and done a quick scruffy sketch of the birds themselves. I'm working from multiple references (sketches, photos), so there's plenty of room for error.

treespas2.jpg

ere-wat.jpg


(How do you do the thumbnail thing - does the forum only do them if you upload rather than link to images?)
 
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Hi Lynne- love your sketches. Being the least techi person around here maybe I'm not the best one to answer your question but here goes- When you have written your message go to the paperclip and the upload your images making sure they are the right size;) So I think the answer is yes upload rather than link.
 
Hi Lynne, welcome aboard! I reckon great minds think alike; This is the latest pic I'm working on layouts for. Mine are house sparrows but I was thinking of something simple as a backdrop too. Probably influenced by the Harris-Ching sparrow pic.

It'll be interesting to see how your painting develops so do keep us updated.

Woody
 

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Hello - Thank you dryslwyn. The sketch of the birds themselves was aiming simply to establish proportions and posture. Not sure I've got proportions entirely right. I hope to look at that tonight if I get chance.

Woody - perhaps great minds do indeed. I have Chings sparrow painting in one of my wildlife art books - a most sublime painting that both inspires and disheartens me. I'm contemplating, myself, how to finish the background. Don't think absolutely plain is going to be the answer in this case, but am going to explore different ideas of how to tackle it before I commit to the time and effort of the finished work. Good to see your sparrow sketches, thanks for showing me (us). You'll be able to render the interesting markings on their backs - something my image may be the poorer for not showing. Am also curious how you'd work yours up. Hope you'll let me, us, in on your methodology.
 
Hi Lynne, nice sketch. I have Tree Sparrows (Treeps) as residents in my garden and so are not only very familiar (looking at them now as I type) they are also a firm favourite!

They sure do huddle together at times, particularly first thing in the morning, not just colder mornings. They don't go for much interaction tho. Your first sketch suggests mutual preeing or similar, and they tend to simply sit there, all dumpy, chirping away noisily. So your second sketch is better in this respect. Bill is also better (too fine on the first sketch), but the bird on the right still looks a little too plump - head / body proportions a little array. Tails on these two also a tad too long and too braod at bottom - should be pretty parallel sided.

As for background, they love nesting and roosting in any really dense hedge or similar. Mine nest and roost in the dreaded Leylandii, which are absolutely fantastic for Tree and House Sparrows, roosting Starlings etc. They can also use dense Hawthorn and Blackthorn. Mine sit on wires over and in front of their Leylandii high rise every day.
 
Hi
Just dropping-in to acknowledge the help kindly given by you, Steve. Your comments are very valuable - I didn't see the suggestion of preening, but do now. Could have been a mistake that would'ave annoyed me once I did see it. Had the feeling I was out on the proportions - good to have my artist's eye confirmed... I note you use the word 'dumpy' to describe them, when they sit together on a morning and I realise that's what I need to aim for - your guidance is much appreciated. A lovely description of 'Treeps' text books don't give - enabled me to visualise a group (something I've not witnessed). Can tell they're a favourite. Top notch help - thank you.

All:
I'm going to go off and develop the next stage of this picture, pondering in turn all the useful practical comments given here. Will come back and post the results for those who've expressed an interest. The least I can do. Of course Christmas preparation is pushing it's way higher on my 'to do' list, so I may be a little while.

Best regards and have a good Christmas all.
I hope readers will vote on my other thread (Robin-ist Robin), while I'm busy... cheers.
 
Lynne, I'm sure I'm not the only one whose looking forward to see how this develops for you. Have a good Christmas - my Treeps will be dining on a fresh supply of suet pellets with berries, sunflowers and red millet.
 
Hi
Slackened the line off again. Raised it higher on the left and a little on the right. Final composition:

optionsA.jpg


Am still messing about with the birds themselves, as you can see - sitting too regimented above, for my taste, but feel they're looking more sparrow-like.

Couldn't resist a quick explore of some alternatives using my various experimental sketches of sparrows, just to be sure I'm happy with the design (composition) I've chosen to take forward.

optionsB.jpg

optionsC.jpg


I'm rather tempted by number two, it's more quirky somehow, less predictable and would let me show off their backs. I feel all these compositions (could be made to) work - I'd put the group of five on a twig though. I want to be moving this along, so am a bit reluctant to change now (could always produce No 2 at some later date).

Colour scheme and lighting to decide next... and finalise the sparrows themselves.

All the best.
 
all these compositions could work well, now seriously, choose one and paint it, we're dying to see the end result, and yes you can alway do the others at a later date (I think you should, they look great!) you've got the character of the sparrows excellently, that sort of tentatively looking forward at something and thinking about moving, but really they're happier where they are on their big bums. Looking forward to seeing this progress now.
 
....now seriously, choose one and paint it, we're dying to see the end result...

Hi Nick - I wasn't sure whether the forum visitors would want to be in on all the cogitations my work goes through in the way of preparation/planning. To be honest, this is the fun stage, the action will slow down once I start painting. If you prefer I'll only post the work once it makes it onto the MDF/illustration board (which ever I decide to paint it on).
Regards.
 
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nickderry said:
....now seriously, choose one and paint it, we're dying to see the end result...
Hi Nick - I wasn't sure whether the forum visitors would want to be in on all the cogitations my work goes through in the way of preparation/planning. To be honest, this is the fun stage, the action will slow down once I start painting. If you prefer I'll only post the work once it makes it onto the MDF/illustration board (which ever I decide to paint it on).
Regards.

Sorry if I came across like that, that isn't what I meant at all. Please do continue to post the process and any thoughts (if you look at my thread you'll see I post nearly everything from almost invisibe pencil lines to a photo of whichever bottle is providing the inspiration). The reason I can't wait to see the finished piece is because it looks like it's going to be darned good. Looking forward to seeing the progression, and of course please post everything, just seeing the end result is nowhere near as good as seeing all the processes involved.
 
Hi Nick. Apologies too. I assure you I hadn't taken offence - I never do in these forums, not my nature. It's that I never assume people are fascinated by these things - though I'm always interested in step-by-steps myself, and often find they miss out bit's I want to see. I'll keep posting - not many decisions to make now. I'll get to the point soon, where I'm champing at the bit to get painting and the slow, but glamorous bit starts.
Thanks for your encouragement, by the way
.... it looks like it's going to be darned good.
All the best.
 
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