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yellow wagtail - ssp feldegg/grey headed (1 Viewer)

Michał Jaro

Well-known member
I have a bird here that was not confirmed as feldegg a few years ago, details were not given. In my opinion, however, it is a feldegg - the bird has a clearly black head, which shines in the light (photo 0470). On the top and back of the head there are highlights, but they are spots, greenish, like in a winter plumage IMO. It also has very dark (black or dark brown legs), the same tail feathers. What do you think ?
 

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Month it was taken and location would be helpful please.

(‘Grey-headed‘ are M.f.thunbergi, M.f.feldegg are ‘Black-headed Wagtail’, just to clarify the taxa). These indeed would be the confusion ssp.
 
Can't be a pure feldegg with a green crown, back to the head and nape?

I was thinking along similar lines Andy but my experience of identification in this complex, including all the potential for individual variation, clinal variation etc is limited while the complex is, well, complex!
 
problem is: feldegg multiply has hibridized with flava and very many male feldegg have such a greenish nape in the intergradation zone (e.g. romania), while the rest of the bird looks perfect for feldegg. i find that the criteria for acceptance as a pure feldegg in a vagrant context only with a sharply demarcated black crown too severe. i think in most of feldegg distribution areas, males with greenish cast to nape occure.
 
problem is: feldegg multiply has hibridized with flava and very many male feldegg have such a greenish nape in the intergradation zone (e.g. romania)

I was thinking hybridisation/clinal intergrades of flava with thunbergi too - and also the difficulties of separating a Black-headed feldegg from a vagrant hybrid Grey-headed thunbergi from the NE Europe zone?! Is that also a possibility?

There’s clearly been migration shift and changing breeding ranges with Yellow Wagtail so how well defined are these zones anymore?

... other than the ‘green’ nape, I thought it looked fine for Black-headed btw and certainly, with the green v grey/blue would rule out ‘pure’ thunbergi (see below)



https://britishbirds.co.uk/content/separation-‘grey-headed’-and-‘black-headed-wagtail’
 
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I was thinking hybridisation/clinal intergrades of flava with thunbergi too - and also the difficulties of separating a Black-headed feldegg from a vagrant hybrid Grey-headed thunbergi from the NE Europe zone?! Is that also a possibility?

There’s clearly been migration shift and changing breeding ranges with Yellow Wagtail so how well defined are these zones anymore?

... other than the ‘green’ nape, I thought it looked fine for Black-headed btw and certainly, with the green v grey/blue would rule out ‘pure’ thunbergi (see below)



https://britishbirds.co.uk/content/separation-‘grey-headed’-and-‘black-headed-wagtail’

The Essex bird at Maylandsea in 1999 was rejected as being a 'pure' feldegg and it was a far better contender than this bird IIRC, can't seem to find any shots of it online.
 
The Essex bird at Maylandsea in 1999 was rejected as being a 'pure' feldegg and it was a far better contender than this bird IIRC, can't seem to find any shots of it online.
I guess that demonstrates Lou's point, that too often records committees demand a level of genetic 'purity' that would shame a fascist regime.
 
This may be the Maylandsea bird but can't swear to it, all the BB links are dead.

Yes, that’s the one (24th May 1999)

Brian Small observed the bird and co-wrote the description I think, so he’s our resident expert and apologies to him if I’ve misrepresented anything but from what I read ...

Finder cites 2 possible confusion races before ruling them out -M.f.thunbergi and M.f.cinereocapilla (I think that’s one of the Eastern races)

noted
1. jet-black cap - glossy/matt depending on light
2. several flecks of yellow on the lores and yellow-toned supra-loral stripe bridging the forehead
3 thin post-ocular stripe -grey/white above ear coverts which were mottled sooty grey at close range (you can see this in Andy’s image
4 nape sooty-black - admixed with patchy olive and grey feathering extending onto upper mantle forming clearly defined shawl.
5 upperparts olive green, quite bright - at times almost yellow - darker feather centres at close range.
6 rump and lower back brighter, yellowish
7 underparts ‘buttercup yellow’ paler throat sides fading to white close to the base of the upper mandible

Further obs also noted but the ones in bold were the ‘deal breaker’ and following Alstrom & Mild’s contemporaneous treatment of feldegg that individuals showing white supercilia were likely intergrades, BBRC decided on principle not to accept any birds with supercilia stripes at all as pure feldegg.

Rather:

Observers of a potential pure feldegg should establish clearly the colour and extent of gloss on the crown and nape, and whether the bird shows any potential intergrade features. These would include the presence of any yellow, grey or white superciliary stripes and/or the presence of any extensive white in the throat. A restricted amount of white in the malar region would not necessarily be incompatible with true feldegg,


I don’t know whether the link will work here https://britishbirds.co.uk/sites/default/files/V96_N06_P291_296_A002.pdf
 
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Sorry, I missed key data again - the bird is from Poland, end of April.
Thanks for your opinions. Coming back to my thread - let's see what does not fit feldegg. For me, it's just a head color. However, on the Internet I found numerous photos showing male feldegg in winter/spring plumage - they have numerous olive discoloration, the neck is often similar to the color of mantle. In my eyes, the head of my bird has head spots with green tone, not gray. I am sending a few more photos. I am not writing about lore, supercilium - this bird has no problem with that.
 

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Michał Jaro;4058130 said:
... Coming back to my thread ...I am sending a few more photos. I am not writing about lore, supercilium - this bird has no problem with that.

Point taken, apologies, I thought the above was of interest, even if not directly related to your bird. The criteria I quoted doesn’t apply here, so again if you thought I was suggesting this, apologies for the irrelevance.

The new images don’t say anything extra to me. Based on what others have said here, if I was submitting it as a record, I think I would leave it’s ‘purity’ up to who is reviewing it and their particular criteria - if was just for my self, I’d tick it as ‘feldegg’ ;)
 
It's a pity there is no recording of it's call! Would be a giveaway... Anyway, I find the lack of a white moustachial stripe and the unicoloured jet black cap (no matter the lighting) look good for feldegg. Plus there is also the date that could be considered slightly supportive for feldegg. The bulk of thunbergi pass through somewhat later.

In the end it's a Yellow Wagtail... Can you ever be sure what you observe in this complex?
 
It's a pity there is no recording of it's call! Would be a giveaway... Anyway, I find the lack of a white moustachial stripe and the unicoloured jet black cap (no matter the lighting) look good for feldegg. Plus there is also the date that could be considered slightly supportive for feldegg. The bulk of thunbergi pass through somewhat later.

In the end it's a Yellow Wagtail... Can you ever be sure what you observe in this complex?

Really?

I always thought that the 'classic' feldegg, had a 'hooded' appearance, that is to say that the entire back of the head and nape, should be black, not just the crown?

The shot of the British bird I posted, does have this hood and yet it was still rejected.
 
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Really?
The shot of the British bird I posted, does have this hood and yet it was still rejected.

See post #13

I wrote in bold why it was rejected (it wasn’t because of the hood/cap) but because of superclia/loral stripes. Michal’s bird does not have this issue.
 
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