Birdsong Apps Disrespectful to Birds (1 Viewer)

Kits · Jun 12, 2013

Using mobile phone apps which mimic birdsong can have a detrimental effect on birds, especially during the breeding season.

Dorset Wildlife Trust said visitors to Brownsea Island are using apps to imitate Nightjar calls to entice birds out so they could photograph the birds. Brownsea Island nature reserve manager Chris Thain said, "Use of these apps is not suitable for nature reserves and can be potentially harmful to sensitive species."

Full article here.

lmans66 · Jun 12, 2013

Ditto .....

chris butterworth · Jun 12, 2013

I agree wholeheartedly Kits. If you haven't got the patience to wait for the bird to show then you've picked the wrong hobby. I know people claim not to have enough time in their 'busy lives' ( CONTENTIOUS POINT WARNING :- I often wonder do they, or have they just bitten off more than they can chew? ) but the point of watching / photographing wildlife is that it's wild, therefore, unpredictable.

Chris

Jim M. · Jun 12, 2013

To be strictly accurate, the apps aren't disrespectful, it's just the way some use the apps that may be disrespectful.

I think using playback to get good photos of birds for which there are already hundreds of excellent photos on the internet is especially questionable. In my experience, photographers who use playback use it for a longer time, trying to get the bird in just the right pose, than those who just want to confirm the bird's presence or identity. This obviously presents a greater risk of stressing out the bird.

But I'm sure this has already been debated ad nauseam.

Best,
Jim

lmans66 · Jun 12, 2013

J. Moore said:
To be strictly accurate, the apps aren't disrespectful, it's just the way some use the apps that may be disrespectful.

In my experience, photographers who use playback use it for a longer time, trying to get the bird in just the right pose,
Best,
Jim

True, the apps are just apps.... and the apps are useful as you prepare yourself before going into the field listening to sounds / viewing images. In the field they are useful for the same...

Photography is so cut throat that everyone is after that perfect shot, even the amateur. In order to get a perfect shot you either have to have your subject in the studio or as close as one can get it. We have all heard of photographers who use the studio to take shots of insects, flowers, animals of sorts..so the while it appears to be wild, it really isn't... the same holds true with luring that bird closer to you using an app.... It is artificial, although the only one that knows it is the photographer.

Every person has to live within their own boundaries and what they accept. Photographers are no different. If they choose to artificially capture their subjects, I would hope that rather than put it off as truly a shot captured in the field after hours of wait time etc.... they would identify the shot or explain how it was captured. I would respect and appreciate the 'shot' more if explained how it was obtained.

Now as far as harming birds....it has to create a bit of undue stress as birds hear the calls and come looking... regardless of the season, ...this is stress. Does it cause real harm?, ...I have no idea but it makes sense that as naturalists, (birders, photographers etc) we of all people should be more attuned to not wanting to take the chance of it causing any harm.

fugl · Jun 12, 2013

lmans66 said:
Now as far as harming birds....it has to create a bit of undue stress as birds hear the calls and come looking... regardless of the season, ...this is stress. Does it cause real harm?, ...I have no idea but it makes sense that as naturalists, (birders, photographers etc) we of all people should be more attuned to not wanting to take the chance of it causing any harm.

"Stress" is a loaded word. For all we know to the contrary, the excitement caused by tape luring is good for birds, at least situationally--keeps them on their toes, gets the juices flowing, gives them a competitive edge over rivals, increases devotion to home & hearth, whatever. . .. The fact is, the critical studies simply don't exist. (I'm sure some kind soul will set me straight if this sweeping statement is no longer true).

A2GG · Jun 12, 2013

lmans66 said:
Now as far as harming birds....it has to create a bit of undue stress as birds hear the calls and come looking... regardless of the season, ...this is stress. Does it cause real harm?, ...I have no idea but it makes sense that as naturalists, (birders, photographers etc) we of all people should be more attuned to not wanting to take the chance of it causing any harm.

well said.

Farnboro John · Jun 12, 2013

I was concerned by the Brownsea manager's statement that such apps are not appropriate to nature reserves, thus implying by omission that they are suitable off nature reserves.....

Taping Nightjars, if it is wrong at all (I think it is) is wrong anywhere.

"Wrong" is not the same as "illegal" BTW. And "right" is different from "legal". Adults should understand and act on the differences.

John

jurek · Jun 12, 2013

Just to be sure,

Immediate response would be simply to put signs banning use of bird calls in the reserve.

Repeating taping in often visited reserves is a disturbance like any other and should be avoided and banned.

I would argue, however, that if the bird is taped only few times (SUMMING ALL people over the WHOLE breeding season), because it is outside known spots or in remote geographic area, it is not harmful.

Ah, and weasel words like "disrespectful" suggest that it is a matter of personal opinion. Not. Bird song is costly activity in terms of energy and time budget, and it is birds' primary means of getting and defending two vital resources - feeding territory and mate. There are known cases of birds abandoning territory because of too much tape playing. So it is not subjective or personal opinion.

fugl · Jun 12, 2013

jurek said:
Ah, and weasel words like "disrespectful" suggest that it is a matter of personal opinion. Not. Bird song is costly activity in terms of energy and time budget, and it is birds' primary means of getting and defending two vital resources - feeding territory and mate. There are known cases of birds abandoning territory because of too much tape playing. So it is not subjective or personal opinion.

Here we go again! Can you point me to critical studies?

And I agree, "disrespectful" is a ridiculous word in this context.

Allen S. Moore · Jun 12, 2013

chris butterworth said:
I agree wholeheartedly Kits. If you haven't got the patience to wait for the bird to show then you've picked the wrong hobby. I know people claim not to have enough time in their 'busy lives' ( CONTENTIOUS POINT WARNING :- I often wonder do they, or have they just bitten off more than they can chew? ) but the point of watching / photographing wildlife is that it's wild, therefore, unpredictable.

Chris

Not doing something because of 'busy lives' is a cliched excuse on their part. They are only 'busy' so they can spend more time watching the TV and droning on about the bow locks thereon, and I'm not referring to the bush bashing thread, BTW!

(Good on you Chris!)

seaspirit · Jun 13, 2013

The problem in popular birding places is not MY responsible (! not this is important!) use of bird calls to lure an individual closer (for watching or photographing doesn't matter in then end), its the summation of other responsible or irresponsible folks that did the very same thing before me and will do it after I have moved on. None of those, including myself, know how frequently the birds has already been subjected to the sound decoy during the day/week, month. So being a responsible and knowledgeable birder I will in this situation NOT use a sound decoy and hope many other will do the same.

Here is an article that deals with different aspects of using sound decoys that is now so much easier and so much more common than in the past as we can carry the whole library of bird songs inclusive player in our shirt pocket.

chris butterworth · Jun 13, 2013

Allen S. Moore said:
Not doing something because of 'busy lives' is a cliched excuse on their part. They are only 'busy' so they can spend more time watching the TV and droning on about the bow locks thereon, and I'm not referring to the bush bashing thread, BTW!

(Good on you Chris!)

You can tell it's that slack period, between spring and autumn migration, here in the northern hemisphere. The slightest sign of a lack of birds and it's 'Let's stir the sh..... time'. :t:

Chris

eddy the eagle · Jun 13, 2013

I was out the other day with friends and shortly after leaving the car in the car park we heard a strange call.We looked at each other in puzzlement and then I said ''stone curlew''.I had never heard one call before but on checking the bird songs on his mobile we confirmed that this was the call.In my opinion this is what the apps are good at and how they should be used,for checking unknown calls and songs,not for luring birds into view.PS. didn't see the bird though due to long vegetation.......Eddy.

MJB · Jun 13, 2013

fugl said:
Here we go again! Can you point me to critical studies?

Last week's New Scientist had an article referencing studies of the effects of stress caused by predator presence/absence, whereby prey behaviour was modified by such disturbance; for example, where wolves were reintroduced, deer behaviour changed - instead of browsing in open, food-rich areas, they kept to dense cover, where food was of poorer quality, resulting in lower productivity. The corollary was that the open habitats received less damage and effectively were restored, becoming a richer niche. Other examples were given, but the context was that the traditional concept of predator-prey relationships might be better modified to include the effect of fear-induced behaviour to achieve a fuller understanding.

This approach certainly chimes with the curious fact that bird communities in temperate primeval forests, though richer in variety than those in secondary or human-controlled forests, are at much lower densities; primeval forests also contain a much wider community of predators.

Excessive use of recorded bird calls would seem to offer a prima facie case of increasing stress levels, within the above context.
MJB

apbarr · Jun 13, 2013

jurek said:
There are known cases of birds abandoning territory because of too much tape playing. So it is not subjective or personal opinion.

Can you reference the proof for this?

chris butterworth · Jun 13, 2013

fugl said:
Here we go again! Can you point me to critical studies?

While it is to be preferred, there are times when recourse to published work is not necessary. The area of the brain governing stress and fear, along with the biochemical effects is pretty universal. It is the same in all vertebrates ( and very, very similar in cephalopods, my speciality ). When you get down to that level there are only 3 things - reproduction, food and safety. At the time birds are nesting / brooding all 3 are 'on high alert' and if they are multI-brooded, or long lived, then that clutch / brood will be 'sacrificed' in favour of safety. The fact that they may raise another brood after abandoning the first is, biologically speaking, perfectly all right but, and now we come to the sticky bit, is it ethically permissible to do so, just for our 'enjoyment'? Do we treat the other species that share this planet with us ethically, or just some or, indeed, none of them?

Chris

fugl · Jun 13, 2013

MJB said:
Last week's New Scientist had an article referencing studies of the effects of stress caused by predator presence/absence, whereby prey behaviour was modified by such disturbance; for example, where wolves were reintroduced, deer behaviour changed - instead of browsing in open, food-rich areas, they kept to dense cover, where food was of poorer quality, resulting in lower productivity. The corollary was that the open habitats received less damage and effectively were restored, becoming a richer niche. Other examples were given, but the context was that the traditional concept of predator-prey relationships might be better modified to include the effect of fear-induced behaviour to achieve a fuller understanding.

This approach certainly chimes with the curious fact that bird communities in temperate primeval forests, though richer in variety than those in secondary or human-controlled forests, are at much lower densities; primeval forests also contain a much wider community of predators.

Excessive use of recorded bird calls would seem to offer a prima facie case of increasing stress levels, within the above context.
MJB

But that's my point, are all forms of "stress" equal in their effects, detrimental or otherwise? Predators are one thing, rivals quite another (or so I would think).

fugl · Jun 13, 2013

chris butterworth said:
The area of the brain governing stress and fear, along with the biochemical effects is pretty universal.

I think you're being a little over-reductionist here. Stress obviously comes in more than one flavor and the flavor most often stirred up by tape luring is surely anger not fear, two different things altogether when it comes to effects on bird behavior. And that's where the (currently and lamentably non-existent) critical studies are needful, to identify these effects and explore their short and long term consequences.

The ethical question is another matter. Stress of various kinds is so omnipresent in the lives of small animals that I'm doubtful that a little tape luring adds much to the burden. My own practice is to tape lure now and again but to try not to overdo it.

chris butterworth · Jun 13, 2013

fugl said:
The ethical question is another matter. Stress of various kinds is so omnipresent in the lives of small animals that I'm doubtful that a little tape luring adds much to the burden. My own practice is to tape lure now and again but to try not to overdo it.

As you say "stress of various kinds is omnipresent". A valid, and probably true statement. Then you claim your "own practice is to tape lure now and again but try not to overdo it" ( my emphasis ). This appears, to me anyway, that, at least on rare occasions, you do, or have, knowingly 'overdone' it. I would like to know the criteria you apply to calculate if youve "overdone" the luring, and what were the long term effects of that. It also removes from the equation anyone else that has been tape luring before you, and anyone that comes after you. Stress, "in its many flavours", can be induced by a single incident, but is more often the product of accumulation. So we come to what really constitutes "a little tape luring" and what is, possibly, harmful?

Chris

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