Raptor Persecution Scotland (1 Viewer)

Hello raptor fans!

There is a new blog all about raptor persecution in Scotland which is shocking

http://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/

SallyAnn said:

Hello raptor fans!

There is a new blog all about raptor persecution in Scotland which is shocking

http://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/

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hi sallyann

shocking but not that surprising the map of incidents rather knocks on the head "the few bad apples" bullshit spouted by the various hunting/shooting apologists on here
the most depressing thing is the paltry punishments handed out to the people they do catch especially with the amount of effort required to catch them
i think the main problem is too much power/influence in the hands of too few people whose only interest is preserving their own privileged way of life not giving a damn that they are destroying our and the future generations natural heritage

cheers

Hi Paul,

Yes, I was very shocked to read the page where the estates are named. There are quite a few of them, not the 'minority' we are often told.

SallyAnn

I guess by 'those hunting/shooting apologists' on here you mainly mean me, well the point is the few bad apples thing is not bull shit because even if every marjor shooting estate was guilty of this which there certainly arent then that would still only represent a small proportion of people involved in shooting as that is only one aspect of shooting that most of us couldnt afford to be involved in even if we wanted to be.

The illegal killing of raptors has nothing at all to do with the ordinary working man or women who spends their time shooting Pigeons or Rabitts for crop protecion or wildfowling or Deer stalking or many other aspects of shooting that many thousands of people are involved in.

That article refers to 64 keepers, yes that 64 too many but does only represent 'a few bad apples' compared to the 100,000's of people involved in shooting.


We've done this over and over again on here now so lets not start another lengthy debate just to acheive nothing again.

Adam W said:

I guess by 'those hunting/shooting apologists' on here you mainly mean me, well the point is the few bad apples thing is not bull shit because even if every marjor shooting estate was guilty of this which there certainly arent then that would still only represent a small proportion of people involved in shooting as that is only one aspect of shooting that most of us couldnt afford to be involved in even if we wanted to be.

The illegal killing of raptors has nothing at all to do with the ordinary working man or women who spends their time shooting Pigeons or Rabitts for crop protecion or wildfowling or Deer stalking or many other aspects of shooting that many thousands of people are involved in.

That article refers to 64 keepers, yes that 64 too many but does only represent 'a few bad apples' compared to the 100,000's of people involved in shooting.

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That is the most complete cobblers I have seen in an argument like this, and as an ex-pistol target shooter I would like to make it clear that hoorays on grouse moors and their condoned paid banditti of keepers are in no way part of the same congregation, any more than a teenager stealing cars for joyrides is part of the motoring public.

John

Farnboro John said:

That is the most complete cobblers I have seen in an argument like this, and as an ex-pistol target shooter I would like to make it clear that hoorays on grouse moors and their condoned paid banditti of keepers are in no way part of the same congregation, any more than a teenager stealing cars for joyrides is part of the motoring public.

John

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Erm wasnt that exactly the point i was making, as you say a teenager joy riding is as much part of the motoring public as i am part of raptor persecution on large shooting estates therefore its totally unfair to group me and many thousands of others in with this minority of idiots.

Adam W said:

Erm wasnt that exactly the point i was making, as you say a teenager joy riding is as much part of the motoring public as i am part of raptor persecution on large shooting estates therefore its totally unfair to group me and many thousands of others in with this minority of idiots.

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I'm now slightly confused about whether you and I are on the same song sheet or not. I got the impression you were grouping yourself in with them, if not I'm quite pleased actually.

How many shooting estates would you say there are? It would be interesting to have figures separately on grouse specific and the more general put down pheasants/partridges-type estates. Then we might have some idea whether there are just a few bad apples - after we've considered how difficult wildlife crime is to detect let alone convict on. 64 convictions must relate to a greater number of prosecutions and an even greater number of detections that didn't get over the CPS bar, let alone the number of undetected offences.

As for pigeon or rabbit shooting exerting "control" - well, I've no objection to either being shot for the pot but lets not kid ourselves. I doubt shooters do so much as account for the non-breeding surplus present at the start of winter.

John

Sorry John, only just noticed your reply.

I think we do share some views here i was trying to distance myself not group myself in with them.

I really dont have any idea of the number of estates but its ceratinly alot more than 64 but i must agree that 64 convictions doesnt take into account many cases that dont lead to convictions.It should also be remembered that many people who might shoot on an estate would be unaware wether a keeper or land owner was killing raptors so it would be unfair to accuse them of being involved if the keeper did get convicted of such a crime,the chances are there would only be the keeper and land owner aware of what was happening.

As for the pigeons and rabbits well you might be suprised just how many are shot again i dont know the figures but it must certainly be 100,000's probably 1,000,000's each year which must at least have some effect on their numbers.