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Raptors attracted by shooting. (1 Viewer)

T

Tideliner

Well-known member
I have seen a number of instants of raptors being attracted by people shooting. Yesterday a guy was pigeon shooting over decoys and 3 buzzards hung in the air over on and off all afternoon sometimes for 1\2 an hour at a time. They aproached him to within 40 yards at times and showed no reaction when he shot at pigeons.

A month ago I saw the same thing with sparrowhawks . On this occasion one sparrowhawk tried to carry off one of the birds he had shot and another ( male ) started to feed on a dead pigeon that had landed 100 m behind him.


Several years ago my local estate was having a pheasant shoot and a female goshawk hung in the air above the guns ignoring the sound of shots.


At Holkham a few years ago I watched some beaters moving through a small wood. A number of small birds ( mainly blackbirds ) were flushed while a harrier circled the wood attempting to catch them despite the sound of shots going off in all directions.

On each occasion it seemed as though the raptors were attracted to the shooting and they never reacted to the sound of the shots. It would apear they have learned that shooting can mean a free meal.
 
It seems to be a quite regular occurance i've had Buzzard, Peregrine and sparrowhawk all come down to try and take Pigeon's ive shot i've also had them attack the plastic decoys which i guess shows how good the decoy's look if it fools even BOP's with their eye sight.
 
Firecrest5 said:
Unfortunately it often means death for them too, as they are extremely susceptible to lead poisioning
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Not saying it never happens but i not sure often would be the word, they would have to swallow the entire bird to be likely to come across one or two pellets even then it wouldnt be unusual to find no pellets at all in a shot bird.
 
Firecrest5 said:
Unfortunately it often means death for them too, as they are extremely susceptible to lead poisioning
Click to expand...

More and more shooters are now using steel which is not toxic. Many of the guys on the estate where i work do for pigeon shooting as well as wildfowl and as lead shells get more expensive i think steel will become more popular. I eat a few pheasants and pigeons that have been shot and rarely come across any pellets. I guess the pellets go right through the birds. The mear fact that they have lived long enough to learn that shooting can mean a free meal sugests its uncommon for the raptor to pick up any lead pellets from a dead bird. One local keeper puts out shot rabbits in winter to feed the thriving local buzzards.
 
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Tideliner said:
. For some reason some Northern keepers still cling to outdated habbits.
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I dont think thats what was being disscussed though was it?
I thought we were talking about BOP's accidently swallowing lead from shot birds which as you say doesnt really seem to be an issue anyway but certainly has nothing to do with some keepers deliberately poisoning birds.


Edit:Your comment seems to have changed so this now makes no sense so just ignore me.
 
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Yes many people are now using steel as it can sometimes be bought cheaper that lead though many people remain to be covinced about its effectivness also its not suitable for all guns,some lead alternatives are suitable for all guns(bismuth) but are very expensive even with lead prices rising.
As you say more often than not pellets go straight through the bird anyway.
 
Adam W said:
Not saying it never happens but i not sure often would be the word, they would have to swallow the entire bird to be likely to come across one or two pellets even then it wouldnt be unusual to find no pellets at all in a shot bird.
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FYI: Not the identical situation, but in this country, lead poisioning is a proven cause of the demise of California Condors. Lead projectiles have been banned in several areas of California, with respect to big game, to attempt to protect the Condors.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/

Best,
Jim
 
J. Moore said:
FYI: Not the identical situation, but in this country, lead poisioning is a proven cause of the demise of California Condors. Lead projectiles have been banned in several areas of California, with respect to big game, to attempt to protect the Condors.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/

Best,
Jim
Click to expand...


Well as you not an identical situation and as i said yes it may well happen on occasion but as i and others have said it doesnt seem to be an issue over here also as was pointed out birds would hardly be able to learn to do it if it killed them obviously many birds have done it many times without coming to any harm(for reasons already discussed) to learn this habbit.

lead shot is illegal here for wildfowling as thats where a problem has been identified i think if there was an isssue in other areas such as BOP's picking up Pheasant's,Pigeon's etc it would have been banned for that aswell.
 
Apologies for the word "often", perhaps I should just have said they are susceptible to poisoning.

I would say however that it only takes one grain of lead, or even a sliver or trace, to kill a raptor. lead shot does not simply pass through a pheasant, a wing shot yes, but not a body shot. as someone who has occasionally prepared shot pheasants for the table, I can assure you that pellets were found in many more birds main body area than were clear.

Hopefully more shoots will move to the steel shot, I certainly only use non-lead in my air rifle for rabbit shooting to feed my goshawks during the moult.

Adam, how do you know it isnt an issue over here?

Rgds
Firecrest5
 
If lead in carrion was a serious problem in the UK we would not see the huge increases in many raptors ( buzzards , marsh harriers , sparrowhawks , hobbies and so on ) in the last decade in England. I live in Norfolk and we never had buzzards as a breeding species 15 years ago. We now have well over 100 pairs in the county. I now have 14 pairs within 10 miles of where i work. And if any raptor is going to pick up shot carrion its going to be a buzzard.
 
Firecrest5 said:
Apologies for the word "often", perhaps I should just have said they are susceptible to poisoning.

I would say however that it only takes one grain of lead, or even a sliver or trace, to kill a raptor. lead shot does not simply pass through a pheasant, a wing shot yes, but not a body shot. as someone who has occasionally prepared shot pheasants for the table, I can assure you that pellets were found in many more birds main body area than were clear.

Hopefully more shoots will move to the steel shot, I certainly only use non-lead in my air rifle for rabbit shooting to feed my goshawks during the moult.

Adam, how do you know it isnt an issue over here?

Rgds
Firecrest5
Click to expand...



As has already been said I think its more a case of it it were an issue i'm sure we'd all know about it by now,maybe i'm wrong and it is a problem but i'd be very supprised if a perfectly good excuse to have a go at shooting is just being ignored, sorry if that sounds a bit paranoid but i dont think its far from the truth.
What non-lead air riffle pellets do you use? i wasnt aware there was such a thing.
 
I dont think anyone is saying it is a serious problem

Tideliner said:
If lead in carrion was a serious problem in the UK we would not see the huge increases in many raptors ( buzzards , marsh harriers , sparrowhawks , hobbies and so on ) in the last decade in England.
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Adam, they are called Prometheus Dynamic. Logun Penetrator used to be non-toxic but now contain lead.....and the company I believe didnt announce the change!

ps ask any falconer if they ever feed game caught on a shooting estate or if they feed the game directly to their hawks without checking for pellets, most of them refuse to feed game caught on shooting estates at all.

e.g. last year I found two mallard sitting in my greenhouse and I'm a few miles from the nearest shoot. They both went in the pot and it wasnt until we were eating them that we discovered 3 pellets so as I said above, the pellets dont go right through. If I had fed them to my goshawks then there is a very good chance they would be dead.

Trust me, any raptor consuming carrion/game in and around shooting estates put themselves at great risk.

Adam W said:
What non-lead air riffle pellets do you use? i wasnt aware there was such a thing.
Click to expand...
 
I just had a look at the pellets on the internet, says they are made of Tin well if they are as effective as the Tin shotgun cartridges i've tried then i'll stick with lead for now.

Of course its not unusual for pellets to be left in a bird but the vast majority do past straight through and the few that dont would by no means always be eaten anyway which probably accounts for the fact that its not known to be a particular problem.

I'm aware its a problem for falconers as i often give rabbitts i shoot to a falconer but they will only take those head shot with the air rifle so there isno chance of any problem.
i think the problem with captive birds is the fact that they may be feed almost exculsivly or at least very regulary on shot animals where as wild birds wouldnt so the chance of poisoning would be far less.
 
Firecrest5 said:
Trust me, any raptor consuming carrion/game in and around shooting estates put themselves at great risk .
Click to expand...

Not the context you were meaning, but it does occur to me that raptors could be at some risk anywhere with a high concentration of guns - perhaps in the vast majority of the country they would be safe, but equally in many areas they would not be (possibly certain estates only/more so in grouse shooting/or in individual farms were all 'vermin' were lumped together?) Certainly, birds moving/wandering to a new area could encounter problems, I'd have thought.

Certainly birds learn (by observation of other birds?); but I would be quite surprised if raptors started learning to associate with the shoots in many parts of continental europe!!

I assume in the US hunting is fairly well regulated, and in duck hunting etc there is minimal 'bycatch' of illegally shot non-target species...

Anyway, most of the above is only 'how I see it', and not verified, so definitely not gospel ;) .

I imagine it is an 'evolving' situation with raptors that is being observed here, in England at any rate (?), now that the automatic and indiscriminate shooting of the past is largely behind us ...
 
Yes, raptors here are attracted by shooting also, but they have to leave the roadkill to get to it....kind of like leaving day old McDonalds for fish 'n' chips. We have half jokingly said osprey are more likely to eat lead than buzzards, due to the continued use of lead weights fishing...our shot is not supposed to have lead in it (except air gun pellets). We keep our lead underwater where no one can see it (clever aren't we). I don't think raptors would eat freshly shot birds for several days anyway.
 
dantheman said:
I assume in the US hunting is fairly well regulated, and in duck hunting etc there is minimal 'bycatch' of illegally shot non-target species...
Click to expand...

I know you said these veiws were only how you see it and not gospel but i really hope you or anybody else dont think that this IS the case in this country as i can assure you its not.
Its been disscussed in detail on here before about the issue of non quarry species being shot and yes shooters are only human so the ocassional mistake my happen but the 'minimal bycatch' you refer to in the US is equally the case here.

while its true that there are many stricter regulations with shooting in the US might i be so bold to suggest that such restrictions are not needed over here as shooting self regulates very well as it is,yes i know people will now start with the usual arguments about raptor persecution etc but thats just a minority of idiots and in no way representative of shooting as a whole or the average shooter in this country.
 
J. Moore said:
FYI: Not the identical situation, but in this country, lead poisioning is a proven cause of the demise of California Condors. Lead projectiles have been banned in several areas of California, with respect to big game, to attempt to protect the Condors.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/

Best,
Jim
Click to expand...

I'd imagine that the lifespan of a Condor is such that it would allow heavy metals to build up in its tissues. In this country it really isn't an issue.
 
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