Magnification vs. Exit Pupil (1 Viewer)

CLRobles said:

Steve, I'll try to explain this one last time.... I have no doubt that a "Alpha" quality scope can pass on more detail in low light. I myself have a very good scope in a Swarovski CTC-75. A 75mm with a wide angle 30x eye piece. This scope does very well in low light and I have used this scope before in these tough situations.
The problem as I said before is it is very tough to use a scope like this. It is too hard to pan with the scope and get a stable image. It takes too much time for the scope to settle between the points and, with the extra power at hand, if you have to refocus it just makes it that much harder. When glassing for wildlife there is very little instances when you can just setup with your optics and view. They just don't like to stand still very long and are never predictable and like to come in from the least expected points.
Where the Scope is harder to use with one eye trying to find the game with a smaller, less stable FOV... The high power bin is a world more comfortable and usable to get behind. They are much, much more stable (allowing you to use them at their fullest extent), have a wider FOV that enables you to both find and stay on the game, and still have the resolution to bring in detail under extreme low light situations.

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CL, This is my last post on this matter.

"When glassing for wildlife there is very little instances when you can just setup with your optics and view. They just don't like to stand still very long and are never predictable and like to come in from the least expected points."

I would think that the OP is hunting out of some kind of stand and could have a tripod that is heavy enough to support what ever "high" power optics he has, that is the way they do it over these beanfields etc. I am a hunter and am not that stupid to think that wild animals just stand there.This fellow could locate a group of bucks with his 10x Swaro and then look at them with a tripod mounted medium power Swaro or high power 80mm+ spotter to see points on deer that could be feeding and in no hurry. When I say high power I mean something like 20-30x not 75x etc. BTW if I had the money and the time off from work I would take you up on your offer of a hunt. I agree about the Swaro would be easier and more comfortable to use I just don't think it is "laughable" to use a 80mm+ scope in this situation. BTW I hope this fellow does get the big Swaro and comes back to tell us how he likes it.:t:
Best regards,Steve

mooreorless said:

I would think that the OP is hunting out of some kind of stand and could have a tripod that is heavy enough to support what ever "high" power optics he has, that is the way they do it over these beanfields etc. . . . This fellow could locate a group of bucks with his 10x Swaro and then look at them with a tripod mounted medium power Swaro or high power 80mm+ spotter to see points on deer that could be feeding and in no hurry. When I say high power I mean something like 20-30x not 75x etc. . . . BTW if I had the money and the time off from work I would take you up on your offer of a hunt. . . . . I agree about the Swaro would be easier and more comfortable to use I just don't think it is "laughable" to use a 80mm+ scope in this situation. . . . BTW I hope this fellow does get the big Swaro and comes back to tell us how he likes it.:t:

Best regards,Steve

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As you all know, I have said that I do not hunt. However, I do like to observe wildlife from a distance in both full light and twilight. For example, I use the method Steve describes to observe Great Blue Heron (4-ft wading birds) in streams, lakes, and wetlands, from a distance of 100-1000 yards. During the day, I handhold lightweight Nikon SE 8x32 or Swift Audubon ED 8.5x44 binoculars with a Kowa 661 30x66 spotting scope mounted on a tripod. During twilight, I handhold the heavier Fujinon FMT-SX 7x50 binocular and insert a 20x eyepiece in the Kowa spotting scope. I have found that I need to reserve the tripod for the scope, thus I do not take larger binoculars like the Nikon SE 12x50 or Fujinon FMT-SX 16x70. I have tried taking two tripods, but that slows me down considerably over the terrain.

Sometimes, I leave the Kowa at home and take a Williams Optics ZenithStar 70mm ED astronomy scope. Dring day, I pack Pentax XW 20mm (22x), 10mm (43x), and 5mm (86x) eyepieces. When I will be out during twilight, I leave the 5mm eyepiece at home and pack a 40mm (11x, 6.6 exit pupil, 6.6° FOV), along with the 20mm and 10mm.

But always, I use the binocular-scope method Steve describes--handholding binoculars to watch the heron fly in and a mounted scope for detail.

I may be making some changes on my binoculars for heron watching. For day, I may switch to handholding the Leupold Cascades 8x42 porro CF binoculars because their internal focusing makes them 100% waterproof. However, this switch will reduce the binocular FOV to 6.5°, a loss of 2° from the Swift Audubon. Even though the extra 2° in the Audubon do not perform with peak resolution, those 2° pick up incoming birds on the edges of the FOV, birds that I might miss otherwise. During twilight, I may switch to the Vixen Foresta porro CF 7x50 because of center focus. Here the loss of FOV will be 0.4°. Decisions...decisions.

. . .

CL, it sounds like you might have a hunting party in the works. :-O

...Bob
Kentucky

Are we talking about going hunting or setting up an optics laboratory? Seems like in addition to the other stuff a hunter needs, including an exquisitely-scoped rifle, one optic would have to do it for most people. A 20" Dob would give a great view, though.

What I really like about this thread is that people defend their way of doing low light observation so adamantly, that it is at least clear that they have done a lot of it, and are are having a real good time out there at dawn and dusk, and that's what it's all about.

Happy hunting, owling, or just crepescular skulking around,
Ron

ronh said:

What I really like about this thread is that people defend their way of doing low light observation so adamantly, that it is at least clear that they have done a lot of it, and are are having a real good time out there at dawn and dusk, and that's what it's all about.

Happy hunting, owling, or just crepescular skulking around,
Ron

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Here are a couple of nature books to keep our nocturnal juices flowing.

Forest Bright, Forest Night: Sharing Nature With Children (Ward & Hinterly, 2005)
http://www.amazon.com/Forest-Bright-Sharing-Nature-Children/dp/1584690674/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252980493&sr=8-1#noop

Nature by Night: A Guide to Observation and Identification (Chevalier & Albouy, 2008)
http://www.wildlifebooks.com/product_details.php?area_id=1&group_id=4&nav_id=75&prd_id=8049

...Bob
Kentucky, USA

Thanks for everyones help. I ordered a pair of 15x56 SLC's yesterday. I'll put them to the test this season.

I am sure you will like it.:t: Please let us know what you think of the big Swaro. I will be interested in what you think and I am sure others will be as well. There has not been a lot of people on this forum that have this binocular.

Regards,Steve

I am glad, through all of our meanderings, the OP has managed to select a nice binocular for counting deer points. I actually started some deer point counting in my own backyard, which I describe in the thread "7x50 -- Vixen Foresta CF vs Fujinon FMT-SX IF" http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3337581/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1 . The thread covers more than deer watching during twilight. The thread is a nontechnical, subjective comparison of the Vixen Foresta porro CF 7x50 with the Fujinon FMT-SX porro IF 7x50.

...Bob
Kentucky

Bob,

Thank you for the link. That was an excellent read. I have been using my 8x56 Meopta for similar applications in recent days.