I don't use any kind of eyepiece nor camera lens so I can't help you.To save me a lot of redundent typing go here and you can understand my setup. If you still have questions just ask.http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=61282
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A (possibly) dumb question about DSLR mounts (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter lucznik
- Start date
I don't use any kind of eyepiece nor camera lens so I can't help you.To save me a lot of redundent typing go here and you can understand my setup. If you still have questions just ask.http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=61282
JGobeil
Nature Photographer
In interesting thread I had missed unfortunately. Great pics too...
Simple all Pentax solution: DSLR, adapter and scope. And you get 2 important benefits IMO:
1- A viewfinder instead of a LDC (I hate those...)
2- Only one focusing device
I see 2 important drawbacks:
1- You need a Pentax DSLR
2- It needs very good light
Well, I guess the perfect solution does not exist yet.
All the pictures you show in that thread are taken at relatively close range. How do you tackle the long range shots, having a constant magnification that cannot be increased ?
"You need a Pentax DSLR" - perhaps not. I have seen adapters that go from Pentax to, say, Canon that should work. I don't know much about it because it's not my problem. These adapter are on Ebay.
"It needs very good light" - sort of. While it's true it's an f/12 lens setup this way it has nothing to do with any inherent disadvantage in the setup. It's an f/12 lens because it is giving you a magnification of a 1910mm prime telephoto. In other words ANY lens at 38x is either going to be somewhat slow or it's going to require an impractical huge heavy objective lens. For instance the $7000 Canon 600mm that gives you only a modest 18x at a modest f/4 requires a gigantic 150mm objective lens and weighs 13 pounds.
Or to put it another way, in order for Canon to build an f/4 1910mm (38x) telephoto to match the magnification of my Pentax spotter would require a clear aperture of 477mm (18 inchs)! It would weigh as much as my Buick and cost a whole lot more. Put this way I'm rather glad my spotter is "only" an f/12 system.
Ever wonder why, for all practical purposes, telephotos stop at the 500mm to 600mm range? - Just look at the physics of optics for your answer.
Also be aware that since that thread I also use astro scopes for photography that has their own advantages and disadvantages.
The long range question I'm not sure what you are asking. I'll be glad to answer as best I can I just don't understand what you are getting at. Could you rephrase it?
SF
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JGobeil
Nature Photographer
Sout,
I mentioned that your setup needs very good light because a DSLR uses a much larger sensor that needs more light than a P&S camera. This has been discussed in the thread: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=92213 in with we both participated. IMO it is one of the most important advantages of P&S cameras in digiscoping - of course, a small sensor has important disadvantages also but this is another story.
My comment about long range is that your DSLR/Scope setup has a 38X fixed magnification factor. This is indeed more than a 500mm lens and a 2.0X TC wich has 32X (with a Canon DSLR having a 1.6 factor) and costs quite a bit less. However, this does not allow you to cover the range between 38X and 60X (long range), the accepted maximum effective range of a good digiscoping setup. This can be done quite easily with a good P&S digiscoping setup.
The way I see it Sout, is that digiscoping is a matter of compromises and one has to make choices. You made the choice of having a F/12 38X setup which obviously pleases you and this fine. Others will make different choices.
I am still at the stage of making that choice and I find it difficult because there are so many options. The first decision is pretty well made: I need a good scope anyway for birding - so I will most likely purchase a Pentax PF80EDA with the 20-60X zoom.
After that I still have to decide wich exepiece I will get for digiscoping. I have narrowed the choice to: XW20, XW14 or Maxview-PX.
I will use a used Canon A95 I just purchased to experiment and learn for a while, changing it to a more recent P&S later.
The option to use a DSLR with the PF80EDA is still open of course.
I mentioned that your setup needs very good light because a DSLR uses a much larger sensor that needs more light than a P&S camera. This has been discussed in the thread: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=92213 in with we both participated. IMO it is one of the most important advantages of P&S cameras in digiscoping - of course, a small sensor has important disadvantages also but this is another story.
My comment about long range is that your DSLR/Scope setup has a 38X fixed magnification factor. This is indeed more than a 500mm lens and a 2.0X TC wich has 32X (with a Canon DSLR having a 1.6 factor) and costs quite a bit less. However, this does not allow you to cover the range between 38X and 60X (long range), the accepted maximum effective range of a good digiscoping setup. This can be done quite easily with a good P&S digiscoping setup.
The way I see it Sout, is that digiscoping is a matter of compromises and one has to make choices. You made the choice of having a F/12 38X setup which obviously pleases you and this fine. Others will make different choices.
I am still at the stage of making that choice and I find it difficult because there are so many options. The first decision is pretty well made: I need a good scope anyway for birding - so I will most likely purchase a Pentax PF80EDA with the 20-60X zoom.
After that I still have to decide wich exepiece I will get for digiscoping. I have narrowed the choice to: XW20, XW14 or Maxview-PX.
I will use a used Canon A95 I just purchased to experiment and learn for a while, changing it to a more recent P&S later.
The option to use a DSLR with the PF80EDA is still open of course.
OK - I understand now.
I think for me I put a very high value on a system that is very fast,
intuitive and reliable. Wildlife photography in actual field use is, for
me at least, one of quickly seizing an opportunity. As much as possible
I want the equipment to get out of the way and allow me to concentrate
on getting on target, frame, focus and shoot. This is my style and is
more akin to a hunter than a conventional photographer. I don't think
there is any serious dispute some sort of DSLR setup is much superior to
digiscoping with a PS in this respect.
Long range shooting I simply don't do. Get much beyond 300 feet or so
and air turbulence becomes the limiting factor as far as quality is
concerned. Then, of course, there is the issue of trying to control
camera shake at 60x not to mention that you are pushing that tiny 80mm
objective pretty hard at that magnification especially for photographic
use. I have seen many digiscopers say that 30x is about the maximum
optimal magnification for their setup and that has been my experience as
well. My guess is that you whether you digiscope with a PS camera or use
a DSLR you won't find magnifications much over 40x very practical under
real field conditions.
Conventional PS digiscoping does have at least one undeniable advantage
- high magnifications with fast f ratios. And this is an important
advantage. I can imagine someone who needs to stay some distance away
from say nesting birds deep inside the shadows of the tree's foliage
could put a digiscoping setup to good use. Beyond this sort of thing
digiscoping seems to me to be a specialized sub branch of nature
photography.
BTW I also have the Pentax PF80EDA. I don't use it for photography but
it makes a nice visual scope. I don't use a zoom and stick to fixed
focal length eps. We had the big XW zoom that came as part of the kit
but my wife did not like it because of the narrow FOV at low powers. We
sold the zoom and got fixed focal length eps instead.
Can't help with what eps to use for digiscoping I leave that to others
with more experience with digiscoping.
Take care
SF
I think for me I put a very high value on a system that is very fast,
intuitive and reliable. Wildlife photography in actual field use is, for
me at least, one of quickly seizing an opportunity. As much as possible
I want the equipment to get out of the way and allow me to concentrate
on getting on target, frame, focus and shoot. This is my style and is
more akin to a hunter than a conventional photographer. I don't think
there is any serious dispute some sort of DSLR setup is much superior to
digiscoping with a PS in this respect.
Long range shooting I simply don't do. Get much beyond 300 feet or so
and air turbulence becomes the limiting factor as far as quality is
concerned. Then, of course, there is the issue of trying to control
camera shake at 60x not to mention that you are pushing that tiny 80mm
objective pretty hard at that magnification especially for photographic
use. I have seen many digiscopers say that 30x is about the maximum
optimal magnification for their setup and that has been my experience as
well. My guess is that you whether you digiscope with a PS camera or use
a DSLR you won't find magnifications much over 40x very practical under
real field conditions.
Conventional PS digiscoping does have at least one undeniable advantage
- high magnifications with fast f ratios. And this is an important
advantage. I can imagine someone who needs to stay some distance away
from say nesting birds deep inside the shadows of the tree's foliage
could put a digiscoping setup to good use. Beyond this sort of thing
digiscoping seems to me to be a specialized sub branch of nature
photography.
BTW I also have the Pentax PF80EDA. I don't use it for photography but
it makes a nice visual scope. I don't use a zoom and stick to fixed
focal length eps. We had the big XW zoom that came as part of the kit
but my wife did not like it because of the narrow FOV at low powers. We
sold the zoom and got fixed focal length eps instead.
Can't help with what eps to use for digiscoping I leave that to others
with more experience with digiscoping.
Take care
SF
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JGobeil
Nature Photographer
You and I are very similar in that respect. I think I understand why you chose to use a DSLR instead of a P&S.
My actual DSLR system is limited to 18X and I don't want to invest in one of the expensive Canon big guns to extend my range. Also, I want to be able to go past 40X if I need to. Granted, these long shots won't win technical prizes but they are still quite useful for ID purpuses, to capture animal behavior and to photograph birds that are seldom seen at close range.
The digiscoping route I am contemplating will allow as much magnification as I want and fairly good quality at short and medium range. Also, the PF-CA35 DSLR adapter is the same price as a Pentax eyepiece and would give me 31X with a PF80EDA and my 20D.
By the way, can you tell me if the K-mount ring is attached with screws or is an integral part of the PF-CA35 adapter ? IMO, replacing it with a Canon ring instead of adding a K/EOS adapter would be better. I am afraid that adding an adapter would cause problems with minimum or maximum focusing distance.
It's attached with five phillips head screws spaced every 72 degrees.
See pic I posted earlier on this thread.
The camera mount issue is addressed in my recent post on the thread http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=92213&highlight=Single+Lens+Reflex+Camera+digiscoping. There are also knowledgeable comments by Sout Fork on that thread. I researched the Kowa spotting scope used as a telephoto and found that Kowa supplies T-mount adapters for virtually all SLR's, including Pentax.
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